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In the other part that wasn't enough and I added on golden tongue and the burgher perk along with a bard potion(12+8 speech). Might reload as I don't to take those perks.
I passed out drunk because of this, and woke up two hours later, stripped naked, on top of the scaffolding of the monastery. Those Benedictine monks know how to show you a good time!
Charisma, Reputation, nothing else seems to matter - just Speech skill
Nice tip - i didn't realize that potions cold be used to bypass skill level requirement - ty
... or maybe i did and just forgot ;)