No Map = No Play

[CalUKGR]

Seems like a nice-looking, enjoyable game. I'm probably never going to know, to be honest. I'm stuck wandering about the opening of the second level, with no map, just a vague instruction to 'get to the Executive Levels' (where the hell are they? - I dunno, and the game sure isn't telling me), no signposts, no markers...just a ton of pointless wandering about. These devs did this in Lords of the Fallen, too - no direction, no map, no hints. It was frustrating to the point of walking away from the game there - it is here, too. It's a shame.

[Kirpano]

It is shame that you can not handle this kind of game.
Very funny to see somebody to disclose his own inability by blaming others.
So funny.

[CalUKGR]

I don't think it's good game design. Why do I need to have to quit the game, go online and search for walk throughs to simply know what it is I should be doing and where I should be headed? How is this good design? I would have thought the number one priority for any game developer is to ensure they maintain player engagement ('keep the player in the game') at all times - to never leave the player lost for what to do, how to do it..? I dunno, seems obvious to me. I've spent 3hrs in this game and I'm none the wiser - not for the lack of trying.

[Sunsetter]

You have some maps hanging on walls inside the game, but from what I remember they werent that well designed and their usefulness is limited. Lot of souls like games have this design choice, and though it's not something I care for, I do see both the benefit and the detriment of it. At the end od the day, the system lives or dies by how unique and recognizable the environments are, and for me at least, Surge suffers from more generic looking levels then I would've liked for this type of game.

I recommend pushing on a little bit, see if it starts to work out for you. If not, oh well... other games out there.

[CalUKGR]

Originally posted by Samael:

You have some maps hanging on walls inside the game, but from what I remember they werent that well designed and their usefulness is limited. Lot of souls like games have this design choice, and though it's not something I care for, I do see both the benefit and the detriment of it. At the end od the day, the system lives or dies by how unique and recognizable the environments are, and for me at least, Surge suffers from more generic looking levels then I would've liked for this type of game.

I recommend pushing on a little bit, see if it starts to work out for you. If not, oh well... other games out there.

Thanks for the sensible reply. Yes, I will keep trying with The Surge - I like this game, love the design of the levels (in terms of how it all looks) and genuinely want to experience the whole game (including 'A Walk In The Park' DLC which I was planning to purchase). Just seems to me that with the addition of a simple map, some useful information (something, anything), what now seems like a chore could have been so much more immediate and engaging. Player momentum is an actual, quantifiable thing, after all.

I get that some games are difficult for a good reason and The Surge is one of those. No problem with that. But there's no excuse for entirely unnecessary barriers to player engagement, such as wilfully omitting any direction-finding (not even, as far as I can see, any written quest descriptions). Absolutely baffling.

[Saitech]

I think they wanted you to feel lost to build some tension and push you to explore, find shortcuts, NPC's and story info. You're meant to learn the layout through trial and error then you get a sense of accomplishment when you find the correct path and make progress.

If you had a full map or objective marker that let you run straight to your objective it would remove all of that.

You make it sound like it was unnecessary and/or done out of stupidity. Instead I think it was a design choice, it just may not be one that's conducive to you personally enjoying the game, which is unfortunate.

Did they execute the design choice perfectly? No, I think the last area in the game is probably the best example of this. However, there are a few little signs, wall maps, pipes and subtle direction cues that can help get you on track if you notice them.

[CalUKGR]

Originally posted by Saitech:

I think they wanted you to feel lost to build some tension and push you to explore, find shortcuts, NPC's and story info. You're meant to learn the layout through trial and error then you get a sense of accomplishment when you find the correct path and make progress.

If you had a full map or objective marker that let you run straight to your objective it would remove all of that.

You make it sound like it was unnecessary and/or done out of stupidity. Instead I think it was a design choice, it just may not be one that's conducive to you personally enjoying the game, which is unfortunate.

Did they execute the design choice perfectly? No, I think the last area in the game is probably the best example of this. However, there are a few little signs, wall maps, pipes and subtle direction cues that can help get you on track if you notice them.

Points taken. I'll definitely try harder to pay more attention to any visual cues dotted around the levels. I agree that the lack of a map/direction finding was almost certainly a design choice. They could have included an *optional* mini map for those of us who would appreciate the help! Thanks again for the feedback.

[a1gundam]

Going off what Saitech said, look at it this way: It's basically Warrens first day on the job and he woke up in a junk yard after getting his exo-suit. He wasn't given a map or a tour of the place before-hand so it's natural for him to not know where anything is and Creo is a pretty large complex.

[CalUKGR]

Originally posted by a1gundam:

Going off what Saitech said, look at it this way: It's basically Warrens first day on the job and he woke up in a junk yard after getting his exo-suit. He wasn't given a map or a tour of the place before-hand so it's natural for him to not know where anything is and Creo is a pretty large complex.

I can't argue with the logic of your point, tbh. It's almost certainly what the developers intended.

[a1gundam]

Anyway you have to go through other areas before you get to the Executive Forum so don't worry about that too much.

[..tMk!*]

ffs just play it. Sooner than later you will be able to memorize all the locations and paths. No need for a map. Same goes for Lords of the Fallen.

[Ancient]

Originally posted by Johann III. Sobieski:

ffs just play it. Sooner than later you will be able to memorize all the locations and paths. No need for a map. Same goes for Lords of the Fallen.

^This precisely. This is how Dark Souls and other games like it work. You don't get a pansy map, you use your brain's ability to compartmentalize through visualization and make a mental map. It takes run after run to do it, but that's where you farm the armor and weapons in the process, so it's a great synergy for this kind of game.

No one is supposed to just be able to look up a map on the wiki and blaze through it. It's supposed to take you 15-25 runs though to collect all the gear/techscrap and learn the area before you progress further. As you progress through, you learn the areas intimately, better than you could ever imagine by using a sissy map, and then you're supposed to run them again through NG+ and NG++ and NG+++ and so on if you want to see all the game has to offer.

Playing this with a map one time straight through would be like playing Diablo 3 and only killing Diablo one time with one class: you've only experienced 3% of the game and are still basically a virgin.

[The Great Ricktator]

The whole point is to explore and figure out for yourself, a map would defeat the purpose

[sopness]

The map is quite straightforward for me though...... Hints for direction are almost everywhere...... Blood stains, graffiti, doors, elevators lock or unlocked..... And it's fun to look for hidden short cuts, voice records, etc. It's so much fun, bro.

[BallisticCrow]

Originally posted by CalUKGR:

Seems like a nice-looking, enjoyable game. I'm probably never going to know, to be honest. I'm stuck wandering about the opening of the second level, with no map, just a vague instruction to 'get to the Executive Levels' (where the hell are they? - I dunno, and the game sure isn't telling me), no signposts, no markers...just a ton of pointless wandering about. These devs did this in Lords of the Fallen, too - no direction, no map, no hints. It was frustrating to the point of walking away from the game there - it is here, too. It's a shame.

I just beat the second level and believe me my friend if you think first is hard oh boy you're in for a lovely treat..

Me personally I love how interconnected the levels are, yeah sure areas look a bit samy but once you go through them a couple of times you should be OK...

PS: this is a SOULS-LIKE GAME there's no such a thing as map in this kind of games.

[BallisticCrow]

Originally posted by The Great Ricktator:

The whole point is to explore and figure out for yourself, a map would defeat the purpose

Exactly, I love you the feeling when you are full of SOULS... Sorry SCRAPS :) and feel worried... Should I press on or should I go back and Level Up xD