The Surge

The Surge

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One thing I don't like about this game
Honestly, from the demo, I love it so far. I'd heard mostly bad things about Lords of the Fallen to the point I was surprised this was by the same devs. Combat system is nice, has its own identity rather than just being a Souls clone, intro does a good job of making the lead character being able to walk impactful by contrast without being an ableist "woe is me" mess that rubs your face in his inability to walk...

My problem is... that you don't get so much as a freaking gender option for the lead. Given that customization is so much the norm for this genre, it just feels inexcusable that we're stuck with this one dude, especially after the Prey reboot provided a gender option where no-one was really expecting one.
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
MundM Aug 2, 2017 @ 10:40pm 
You are what's wrong with people these days.

The developers had the game as is in mind, with a certain amount of ressources and development time. They wanted Warren to be the protagonist. Nobody needs to excuse for making a game that doesn't fit your preferred gender rule. Wtf does Prey have to do with a game from another developer?
How about you send a couple of ten-thousand bucks to the developer, I'm sure that they can finance recreating the cut scenes and animations with a female character then...oh no, but then that won't be enough, right? You want to customize your looks? Making in game rendered cut-scenes necessary in order for your custom character to be in it? Oh well, then rather send a hundred-thousand bucks over there, and wait for half a year till they can re-release the game.

Please remove the word "inexcusable" from your vocabulary, you obviously don't know how to use it properly, unless in exaggerations.
Last edited by MundM; Aug 2, 2017 @ 10:40pm
Fru Fru Brigade Aug 2, 2017 @ 10:55pm 
No, sorry, you're what's wrong with people today. Or at least gamers. The idea that games are some sacred cow that can never be criticized because of the "artistic vision" or "resource limitations" or whatever... unless it smacks at all of being too progressive or feminist, then it's fine to dogpile on it. That's... not how anything works. People are allowed to criticize media. Indeed, it's a core part of the process of art's creation and consumption.

I... also never suggested the game needed customization. I just pointed out that it didn't have any in a genre that usually does, and I feel like a gender selection would have been minimal.

Let's also not pretend your high-minded respect for the limitations of their resources (which are exaggerated to all hell -- there's a reason Ubisoft got mocked to hell and back, even by actual game devs, for suggesting a female character would have doubled the development costs and workload of Assassin's Creed: Unity) wouldn't evaporate if a game did something you didn't like. The same people who attack folks for wanting a gender option when it's a male lead were whining that Life is Strange didn't have one.

You also fail to explain why this is so utterly impossible, when so many other games have done exactly that. Just throwing your hands in the air and shouting about money. Prey did it, Dark Souls series (Which this is so obviously inspired by) did it, Mass Effect series did it... I could go on, but there's really no need.

As for what a game with another developer has to do with it, it's because it's in the same market as Prey, the same industry, and when one game raises the bar (say, by including a gender option in a genre that traditionally has not offered it), that raises the expectations for other devs too. If you don't like that, maybe you should get out of gaming, or consuming entertainment in general.

Please don't speak anymore, it's clear you have no idea how to do it, except in exaggerations.
naomha Aug 2, 2017 @ 11:18pm 
I don't belive it's "inexcusable" by any means. Developers have their own idea of the person they want you to play. Games like Mass Effect included different genders because Bioware likes to reach outside the box with gender identities and sexual confrontations. This game has none of that. Also, while I could be wrong, the only game that I know of in this genre that lets you change your gender is the DS games. However, they're ugly as h.e.l.l. and we all know this. No matter the gender, all the character customization options are bland are muddy and washed out looking.

It does take a fair amount of resources to change anything beyond a single gender in a game. All the assets for the character models have to be changed, all the artwork has to be included and coded, cut-scenes have to be edited and created and voiced and every single piece of armor in-game has to be re-made to include a female. This isn't some $15 an hour, 1 hour job. You're talking hundreds, if not thousands, of man hours to do this. Beyond that, if you're going to include a female option then if you don't allow customization of these player characters, well, then you've got another hot seat to listen to about that.

Personally, it doesn't bother me either way. Playing every single DS game ever made and I've always chosen the basic character models because their options are so limited anyway. Once you get armor, the customization options are moot anyway.

Now, if you're looking to have the developers maybe include these options in a future game, hey, drop em a line. One of my favorite games in this genre was Lords of the Fallen. For me, the game moved past what Dark Souls games ever were. DS is all about timing and footwork and learning your enemy. LotF was all about making that weapon connect in a fantastic way and making it sound really, really good doing it. It wasn't the best game, but I"ll be damned if I didn't play the h.e.l.l. out of it. It was pure fun.

Moving on though, character customization options are fantastic in RPGs and such because you're making that world, that character and that story your own in a grand way. In games such as these, it's nice to have a precision story focusing on 1 person that it's written around rather than include so many other options that may take away from the developers initial vision. Games that immediately come to mind are games like Mad Max, LotF, Bloodborne, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Far Cry series, Dishonored, etc. Games that the focus is on the character the story is about rather than an option left open for some interpretation down the road or things that may not make sense with a different gender in the game.

My 2 cents. That and a $1 will get you a cup of coffee at McD's.....
WTF? Gender? You do realize that not every game is designed to be an RPG Gender choosing game. Are you this Stupid? I don't think you are. I think you are just drudging up problems where there are none. I think you are baiting and just a plain ole moron. You know what, because of that i demand that The next Tomb Raider I get to play as Larry Croft. While we are at it I hear there is another Batman Game coming soon, I demand that i get to play as Brucilla Wayne.
Northstrider Aug 3, 2017 @ 12:59am 
The game clearly stated that you're playing as Warren. You played it probably without reading the description and so you're basicly triggered about something that you didn't know about before. Or you're a bad troll.
MundM Aug 3, 2017 @ 5:03am 
Originally posted by Nezumi:
No, sorry, you're what's wrong with people today. Or at least gamers. The idea that games are some sacred cow that can never be criticized because of the "artistic vision" or "resource limitations" or whatever... unless it smacks at all of being too progressive or feminist, then it's fine to dogpile on it. That's... not how anything works. People are allowed to criticize media. Indeed, it's a core part of the process of art's creation and consumption.

I... also never suggested the game needed customization. I just pointed out that it didn't have any in a genre that usually does, and I feel like a gender selection would have been minimal.

Let's also not pretend your high-minded respect for the limitations of their resources (which are exaggerated to all hell -- there's a reason Ubisoft got mocked to hell and back, even by actual game devs, for suggesting a female character would have doubled the development costs and workload of Assassin's Creed: Unity) wouldn't evaporate if a game did something you didn't like. The same people who attack folks for wanting a gender option when it's a male lead were whining that Life is Strange didn't have one.

You also fail to explain why this is so utterly impossible, when so many other games have done exactly that. Just throwing your hands in the air and shouting about money. Prey did it, Dark Souls series (Which this is so obviously inspired by) did it, Mass Effect series did it... I could go on, but there's really no need.

As for what a game with another developer has to do with it, it's because it's in the same market as Prey, the same industry, and when one game raises the bar (say, by including a gender option in a genre that traditionally has not offered it), that raises the expectations for other devs too. If you don't like that, maybe you should get out of gaming, or consuming entertainment in general.

Please don't speak anymore, it's clear you have no idea how to do it, except in exaggerations.
Did you just wrote a lengthy reply and end it with "shut up"?
Great discussion, 7/10. Would discuss with SJW again.
MundM Aug 3, 2017 @ 5:10am 
A little bit from your profile:
"Nezumi 12. Nov. 2016 um 20:26 Uhr
I want the world to die.


Nezumi 25. Okt. 2016 um 0:34 Uhr
Not a boy, sorry.

Nezumi 4. Aug. 2016 um 3:27 Uhr
Why does anyone even pretend to care about me?

Nezumi 7. Okt. 2013 um 1:14 Uhr
Not that picky? Games, trading cards I need, coupons, might wanna update my list of what I'm offering."

Attention seeker detected, in other words: troll. No constructive disucssion possible with you. Have a good day, bye!
Fru Fru Brigade Aug 3, 2017 @ 6:10am 
Originally posted by MundM:
A little bit from your profile:
"Nezumi 12. Nov. 2016 um 20:26 Uhr
I want the world to die.


Nezumi 25. Okt. 2016 um 0:34 Uhr
Not a boy, sorry.

Nezumi 4. Aug. 2016 um 3:27 Uhr
Why does anyone even pretend to care about me?

Nezumi 7. Okt. 2013 um 1:14 Uhr
Not that picky? Games, trading cards I need, coupons, might wanna update my list of what I'm offering."

Attention seeker detected, in other words: troll. No constructive disucssion possible with you. Have a good day, bye!

Oh, hi! Thanks for digging up posts I made while depressed (and replies to people on things) and using them to call me a troll. Real classy. That's right. I have literal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ major depressive disorder, and I don't actually believe in deleting things I've said because of it and pretending they never happened on the off chance someone with no apparent capacity for compassion digs them up to diecredit me. Monster detected, in other words troll. No constructive discussion possible with you. Have a good day, bye! (Reported, incidentally.)

ETA: Okay, to clarify, I'm not calling you a troll because I think you say inflammatory things (actual inflammatory things, not just "Gee, I wish this game had a gender option and it's weird that it doesn't") to rile people up. I'm calling you that because from your conduct I'm fairly sure you live under a bridge and eat children and goats.

Originally posted by MundM:
Did you just wrote a lengthy reply and end it with "shut up"?
Great discussion, 7/10. Would discuss with SJW again.

I mean, you wrote a lengthy -- if shorter than mine -- reply and ended it with "Don't use a word you used properly because I disagree with you on what you said," so thanks for the flaming hypocrisy?
Last edited by Fru Fru Brigade; Aug 3, 2017 @ 6:22am
FuzzyLogic Aug 3, 2017 @ 11:58am 
Originally posted by Nezumi:
...and I feel like a gender selection would have been minimal.
Minimal!?
- new character model
- rescale/rig all equipment (full redesign if not enough)
- rewrite all at the character aimed ingame messages and dialog
- record voice acting for the female character
- redo all finishing animations to fit new character model
- QA all of the above changes
(- all the other changes needed I am not aware of)

It is not always feasible and most certainly not 'minimal' to add a gender option to games.
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
Originally posted by Nezumi:
...and I feel like a gender selection would have been minimal.
Minimal!?
- new character model
- rescale/rig all equipment (full redesign if not enough)
- rewrite all at the character aimed ingame messages and dialog
- record voice acting for the female character
- redo all finishing animations to fit new character model
- QA all of the above changes
(- all the other changes needed I am not aware of)

It is not always feasible and most certainly not 'minimal' to add a gender option to games.
ESPECIALLY, when the game wasnt intended to be played as a woman. And yet no one seem to be pointing this out. When I Played Tomb Raider, I never once said, "why doesn't this game allow me to play as a DUDE: Like WTF??? Sometimes I wanna throw up on these people so they know how i feel when they make these DUMB Baiting request. I dont know why people are hell bent on having rational discussions, with Irrational People.
Last edited by [N7] Sr. Chalice a.k.a Covid 5G; Aug 3, 2017 @ 2:26pm
Fru Fru Brigade Aug 3, 2017 @ 5:11pm 
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
Originally posted by Nezumi:
...and I feel like a gender selection would have been minimal.
Minimal!?
- new character model
- rescale/rig all equipment (full redesign if not enough)
- rewrite all at the character aimed ingame messages and dialog
- record voice acting for the female character
- redo all finishing animations to fit new character model
- QA all of the above changes
(- all the other changes needed I am not aware of)

It is not always feasible and most certainly not 'minimal' to add a gender option to games.

Cherrypicking and deliberate misframing of my statement. I didn't mean that it would have had a minimal resource footprint. I meant it would've been a minimum standard of "character customization" in a genre that's generally featured it. (The entire Souls series, Salt & Sanctuary, etc.) You... also assume that a version that featured it would necessarily have exactly the same content as the current version, apropos of nothing, and in some cases outright exaggerate. (Not all the in-game messages and dialog would have to be changed, as a great many of them have no reference to gender)

I never demanded they patch the game to add it or anything, I just complained about the lack and suggested it should have had it. Why the extreme hostility to a simple criticism of the game and opinion on it?
FuzzyLogic Aug 3, 2017 @ 6:07pm 
Originally posted by Nezumi:
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
Minimal!?
- new character model
- rescale/rig all equipment (full redesign if not enough)
- rewrite all at the character aimed ingame messages and dialog
- record voice acting for the female character
- redo all finishing animations to fit new character model
- QA all of the above changes
(- all the other changes needed I am not aware of)

It is not always feasible and most certainly not 'minimal' to add a gender option to games.

Cherrypicking and deliberate misframing of my statement. I didn't mean that it would have had a minimal resource footprint. I meant it would've been a minimum standard of "character customization" in a genre that's generally featured it. (The entire Souls series, Salt & Sanctuary, etc.) You... also assume that a version that featured it would necessarily have exactly the same content as the current version, apropos of nothing, and in some cases outright exaggerate. (Not all the in-game messages and dialog would have to be changed, as a great many of them have no reference to gender)

I never demanded they patch the game to add it or anything, I just complained about the lack and suggested it should have had it. Why the extreme hostility to a simple criticism of the game and opinion on it?
Hello there fellow cherry picker. How nice of you to address one point from my list. Well done!

But back to your response... If the option would get patched in or would have been added from the start wouldn't change that its costly and takes time. Something no one has in unlimited supply.
And yes! I would assume that the game had the same content! If the story, or other forms of content, would have to fall short of the intended length/amount just to satisfy some unnecessary wish for 'gender equality', or whatever you want to label it, I can only call it detrimental.
I can only assume, and even understand to a degree, that you would think it adds to the game. But for smaller, and even medium sized Devs, adding one 'feature' means most of the time leaving out or reducing some other aspect.


In general this topic is just sooooooo overdone and... screw it. Its far too late for this and you considered my post 'extremely hostile' anyway. So here you go:

:steamsalty::steamhappy:
Kharnivore2099 Aug 4, 2017 @ 4:18am 
I hate it when I can't choose my gender, especially in Mario games. Like wtf, it's the current year...

If Sonic Mania comes out and I can't change my gender, I'm not gonna be happy.
The Lapdragon Aug 4, 2017 @ 4:24am 
I have a suspicion that the character of Mallory (who you don't know yet, as she's not in the demo) may have been a female protagonist - she has the exact same interactions through the game as Warren does - she has the surgery while awake, is approached by Sally and told to go to the Executive Forum, she has to fight her way through security and everything else - for all intents and purposes she could have taken Warren's place in the game.

That having been said, it was either a scrapped concept and they just made her into a story point, or they were pressured by their publisher to release before the Mallory background work was completed, which just relegated her to an interesting coincidental narrative.

In either case, I think that with a bit of work they could indeed add in a female protagonist without altering the story, but they would have to address all the issues mentioned before - they'd have to rig Mallory's model to actually be movable (animation bones, etc), and then they'd have to redo an intro and ending cutscene video with Mallory, and re-record any of the audio that mentions "him" (meaning Warren) with a "her" variant. Conceivably, they'd also need to redo some of Irina Beckett's dialog.

At the end of the day I think that the game itself would survive having a female protagonist, but I doubt that there's enough resources in the development budget for a now-finished game to add in a female protagonist after the fact.
Originally posted by Kharnivore2099:
I hate it when I can't choose my gender, especially in Mario games. Like wtf, it's the current year...

If Sonic Mania comes out and I can't change my gender, I'm not gonna be happy.
+1
Marion & Sonica FTW Baby :)...
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Date Posted: Aug 2, 2017 @ 10:10pm
Posts: 23