irina´s quest discussion

[Neunmalklug]

did anyone notice, if you dont talk to irina at the 1st place or dont give her a staff, the security door in circulation tower will be open and no negotiator staff is inside. so does she have a security rig and is part of the guards from the beginning?

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

I think when you find her the second time she's already balancing between engineer and security. She probably is a cyborg that has been through at least 2 different builds and after the surge her memory is allover the place. As a security guard she is in Central Prod. B, and perhaps the surge fried her a bit and she went back to a previous build for a minute

She is already wearing half gorgon gear as well, and in that area no Security guards are around yet, except the ones in elevator and maglev station. I experimented a tiny bit with the second spot you find her, I purposely killed security in ng+ thinking Irina could have found the first pieces from them, then ng++ I let them live before meeting her. In both cases Irina had gorgon armor and each time I met her seems to have a bit more

Reason I say she could be a cyborg is because her having memories from different personalities might very well be caused by the surge, however others that have had that say they feel they are in someone elses mind, or someone is in theirs. Irina identifies both personalities as her own self, so either she got a bit too fried and cognitive functions are more damaged than others we find, or she had been through different builds, and the memories she is holding are indeed hers

[gary.hop]

I haven't finished the game yet but that second meeting was weird. It was like WTF I'm sure she said she was a great engineer when she wanted the staff, now she's saying she's security but seems confused about it. She's undoubtly a cyborg or she's been through a bad recall like in the film.

It's made me wonder if Warren is all he seems either, was the wheelchair beginning even real?

[Burusagi]

Actually she is not a cyborg. The Proteus are not advanced enough to mimmick a human being like that - at best they are mentally left at the level of murderous toddlers. At best.

Her being "converted" into a Security officer can sort of be explained by one of the failsafe logs in the game which declares that after the titutlar Surge hits, security protocol goes into overdrive as a standardized defensive measure (like if it was a regular cyber/hacker attack or something) which could explain

a) Why Security does what it does.

b) Why Irina gets brainwashed into thinking she is a Security officer.

After all, the failsafe logs simply call the workers "assets" and such clinical terms. For CREO to have a system in place to brainwash regular workers into security in a time of crisis is not beyond them either - they're a scummy company.

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Actually she is not a cyborg. The Proteus are not advanced enough to mimmick a human being like that - at best they are mentally left at the level of murderous toddlers. At best.

Her being "converted" into a Security officer can sort of be explained by one of the failsafe logs in the game which declares that after the titutlar Surge hits, security protocol goes into overdrive as a standardized defensive measure (like if it was a regular cyber/hacker attack or something) which could explain

a) Why Security does what it does.

b) Why Irina gets brainwashed into thinking she is a Security officer.

After all, the failsafe logs simply call the workers "assets" and such clinical terms. For CREO to have a system in place to brainwash regular workers into security in a time of crisis is not beyond them either - they're a scummy company.

I keep forgetting that. Yeah it makes more sense they could straight up mess with their nervous systems

[Malidictus]

The emergency logs are pretty clear that the system is attempting self-repair by using "analogous systems" to handle the worlkoad of disabled systems. We also know that not only is it possible to implant foreign thoughts into people's heads using their neural links, but that the company is apparently already doing this. You find a pretty damning log in the Re-education Facility in the Executive Forum, which seems to imply very heavily that Creo has been altering people's memories potentially for a long time. We know the system collapsed and damaged the neural implants for all the workers, turning them into berserkers, and that it later attempted to replace a lot of "systems" with analogous security systems.

From all of the above, I think we can infer that Irina's brain is being overwritten by security protocols that the system is forcing down the network. Moreover, this might imply that Creo security personnel is already brainwashed before the game even starts, which would be why they don't react to the cascading failure and instead keep behaving as though this is business as usual. Nothing at Creo is advanced enough to actually replace the naturally-occurring systems they're trying to replace, so re-writing people's memories and altering their perceptions could leave them unable to respond to unfamiliar circumstances.

My theory is that Security is just as affected as the workers, but in a different and cosmetically less obvious way. Workers keep miming their regular jobs despite the circumstances, and so does Security. While guards might not be berserk, that doesn't mean they're fine. After all, Irina never goes berserk at any point, yet she's very clearly not fine.

[Burusagi]

It does, however, seem that Security are not affected by the Rogue Processes. They are not physically zombified in that way.

[Ping Pirate]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Her being "converted" into a Security officer can sort of be explained by one of the failsafe logs in the game which declares that after the titutlar Surge hits, security protocol goes into overdrive as a standardized defensive measure (like if it was a regular cyber/hacker attack or something) which could explain

a) Why Security does what it does.

b) Why Irina gets brainwashed into thinking she is a Security officer.

After all, the failsafe logs simply call the workers "assets" and such clinical terms. For CREO to have a system in place to brainwash regular workers into security in a time of crisis is not beyond them either - they're a scummy company.

Yeah, this does do a pretty good job of explaining the security's apparent "aloofness" to the situation and their strict adherence to guarding a bunch of corpses from robo-zombies. I had always thought that security was following shadow orders from an outside organization due to one of the audio logs in the exec-forum talking about "outside assistance". I guess the process is automatic since it happens to Irina even after CREONet fails.

Her ending is kinda poetic too. Where after helping her out she ends up killing Mallory. Nice job Warren.

edit: Oh, and does this theory also extend to the hazmat teams? I found their inclusion to be very odd, since you only see them do their "duty" about twice before they just become randos in a hallway.

[Neunmalklug]

but mallory is dead no matter what we do with irina, so dont blame yourself ;)

[Burusagi]

Yeah, based on her physical condition at the time, Irina might just be performing a mercy killing.

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Yeah, based on her physical condition at the time, Irina might just be performing a mercy killing.

The way she says to Warren that "he doesn't wanna end up like that girl" does sound more like she was sorry for her, than a bully threat

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Vintage Villain:

edit: Oh, and does this theory also extend to the hazmat teams? I found their inclusion to be very odd, since you only see them do their "duty" about twice before they just become randos in a hallway.

That's a good point. The Hazmat dudes are primarily found in R&D, so why are they in the Biolabs kicking down Chaves' door? I mean, to hear her tell it, these are security teams from Creo sent to kill her, which makes no sense given the situation. I can see why that would appear so from HER perspective, but it makes no sense that I can detemined from a narrative perspective, other than "flamethrower dudes are the next tier of enemies." Hmm...

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by Vintage Villain:

edit: Oh, and does this theory also extend to the hazmat teams? I found their inclusion to be very odd, since you only see them do their "duty" about twice before they just become randos in a hallway.

That's a good point. The Hazmat dudes are primarily found in R&D, so why are they in the Biolabs kicking down Chaves' door? I mean, to hear her tell it, these are security teams from Creo sent to kill her, which makes no sense given the situation. I can see why that would appear so from HER perspective, but it makes no sense that I can detemined from a narrative perspective, other than "flamethrower dudes are the next tier of enemies." Hmm...

Aye, it is weird. Almost as if they are a "third" faction (Rogue Process-afflicted humans and Security Personnel being the other two). Their names are interesting in and of themselves though:

They are called Liquidators. That is a fancy way to spell "assassin".

To me it seems that 'someone' sent these enemies in to just clean house/tie up loose ends: they attack Chavez and they appear to try and kill off the regular enemies as well. Unlike Security which appears to take a purely defensive role.

[R E D L I N E]

How come nobody mentioned her flesh burning off and leaving a Proteus skeleton after you kill her when she attacks you at the end of her quest? If she's not a cyborg then what's up with that?

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Thunder:

How come nobody mentioned her flesh burning off and leaving a Proteus skeleton after you kill her when she attacks you at the end of her quest? If she's not a cyborg then what's up with that?

I didn't kill her on my second playthrough (just didn't push her into a fight) so I didn't see. Does anyone have screenshots of that?

Also, my apologies. I sort of cross-posted the hazmat team topic into the "Story" thread since that's already tagged for spoilers and I don't want to derail.

[R E D L I N E]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by Thunder:

How come nobody mentioned her flesh burning off and leaving a Proteus skeleton after you kill her when she attacks you at the end of her quest? If she's not a cyborg then what's up with that?

I didn't kill her on my second playthrough (just didn't push her into a fight) so I didn't see. Does anyone have screenshots of that?

Also, my apologies. I sort of cross-posted the hazmat team topic into the "Story" thread since that's already tagged for spoilers and I don't want to derail.

Nevermind I'm stupid, I looked up some videos of that quest and it's just her exoskeleton that stays after she dies, I just got a little confused at first since that never happens to regular enemies