1 hit kill is NOT difficulty. Its plain BAD design

[Briosh]

We can forgive the level design, repeatitive corridors and same environments again and again and again and again and again and.... IF there is some kind of progress. But having most enemies kill with one or two hits REGARDLESS of armor is plain stupid. The mechanics are good, don't let the details ruin this game. Less enemy damage to allow easier progression, or less enemy health, will be enough to help some players move forward. Right now the game feels like a chore, i drag my self instead of enjoying it. I even used a trainer and still died from buggy hit detection !!!! I NEVER USE trainers and this game made me. This is bad.

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Get the latest patch.

" - The damage of the beam ranged attack of the Nano mass enemy has been reduced"

Not that it ever hit me, as I actually use that time to go behind it :D

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Vee_Spade:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Get the latest patch.

" - The damage of the beam ranged attack of the Nano mass enemy has been reduced"

Not that it ever hit me, as I actually use that time to go behind it :D

Likewise, but the devs gave in to the filthy cauzls.

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by Vee_Spade:

Not that it ever hit me, as I actually use that time to go behind it :D

Likewise, but the devs gave in to the filthy cauzls.

Oh well, it doesn't change much for me, so no problem. I got more butthurt when it's minion thing stunted me and then killed me in 2 swings, but in terms of any projectile, I find there's a good warning and you can easily avoid, or even better use to your advantage

[Devil Dog]

I'm bad in this game. Really bad. I mention this every time someone complains how difficult the game is. Because the game is difficult, sometimes annoyingly so. In fact I don't call it "The Surge" anymore. I call it "The Grind."

This is how I trained myself to get past most encounters, boss or otherwise - jump in, jump out. After getting whacked to death by that first boss, the PAX robot, I spent several hours basically messing with that first level, after I cleared an area, I would simulate attacks to practice my combos.

What sucks the most for new players, this game has horrible in-game help. There is none! No one knew how combos worked, the real benefit of stacking implants, this weapon over that weapon or armor types. Hell I didn't even figure out WTF banking tech was until I pressed on it, went outside, got whacked, and didn't lose my loot for the first time!

The levels are annoying, I think on purpose. You've never been there before, but like others have mentioned, a few play throughs and you start to recognize 'landmarks.' You'll grind and grind and grind, and then you'll grind some more. And as someone mentioned, almost comically, but kinda true, you gotta do some research. Unfortunately, at least in the beginning, that 'research' will come at the price of dying and dying. Again because the game sucks at describing almost anything. But that probably goes with the story line - something went wrong right after your character got altered.

I picked up an implant that changed for the most part, how I play the game now - the Modaxinol Injector. Can't remember the explanation, but it slows time. The security guards with that electric tazer shock staff, would one-shot me every time. Now, I jump in and smack them once, enough to juice up my energy, then I hit that Modaxinol implant - BOOM! One dead security guard :)

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Devil Dog:

I'm bad in this game. Really bad. I mention this every time someone complains how difficult the game is. Because the game is difficult, sometimes annoyingly so. In fact I don't call it "The Surge" anymore. I call it "The Grind."

This is how I trained myself to get past most encounters, boss or otherwise - jump in, jump out. After getting whacked to death by that first boss, the PAX robot, I spent several hours basically messing with that first level, after I cleared an area, I would simulate attacks to practice my combos.

What sucks the most for new players, this game has horrible in-game help. There is none! No one knew how combos worked, the real benefit of stacking implants, this weapon over that weapon or armor types. Hell I didn't even figure out WTF banking tech was until I pressed on it, went outside, got whacked, and didn't lose my loot for the first time!

The levels are annoying, I think on purpose. You've never been there before, but like others have mentioned, a few play throughs and you start to recognize 'landmarks.' You'll grind and grind and grind, and then you'll grind some more. And as someone mentioned, almost comically, but kinda true, you gotta do some research. Unfortunately, at least in the beginning, that 'research' will come at the price of dying and dying. Again because the game sucks at describing almost anything. But that probably goes with the story line - something went wrong right after your character got altered.

I picked up an implant that changed for the most part, how I play the game now - the Modaxinol Injector. Can't remember the explanation, but it slows time. The security guards with that electric tazer shock staff, would one-shot me every time. Now, I jump in and smack them once, enough to juice up my energy, then I hit that Modaxinol implant - BOOM! One dead security guard :)

TL; DR - You started your journey towards "gitting gud". ;)

But yeah, the problem is that most - if not all - of the hints and tips are contained within loading screens and eventhough I don't have a super computer or nothing, they don't last nearly long enough (nor are frequent enough) to sit there and read everything!

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

Originally posted by Devil Dog:

I'm bad in this game. Really bad. I mention this every time someone complains how difficult the game is. Because the game is difficult, sometimes annoyingly so. In fact I don't call it "The Surge" anymore. I call it "The Grind."

This is how I trained myself to get past most encounters, boss or otherwise - jump in, jump out. After getting whacked to death by that first boss, the PAX robot, I spent several hours basically messing with that first level, after I cleared an area, I would simulate attacks to practice my combos.

What sucks the most for new players, this game has horrible in-game help. There is none! No one knew how combos worked, the real benefit of stacking implants, this weapon over that weapon or armor types. Hell I didn't even figure out WTF banking tech was until I pressed on it, went outside, got whacked, and didn't lose my loot for the first time!

The levels are annoying, I think on purpose. You've never been there before, but like others have mentioned, a few play throughs and you start to recognize 'landmarks.' You'll grind and grind and grind, and then you'll grind some more. And as someone mentioned, almost comically, but kinda true, you gotta do some research. Unfortunately, at least in the beginning, that 'research' will come at the price of dying and dying. Again because the game sucks at describing almost anything. But that probably goes with the story line - something went wrong right after your character got altered.

I picked up an implant that changed for the most part, how I play the game now - the Modaxinol Injector. Can't remember the explanation, but it slows time. The security guards with that electric tazer shock staff, would one-shot me every time. Now, I jump in and smack them once, enough to juice up my energy, then I hit that Modaxinol implant - BOOM! One dead security guard :)

Yeah, I mean one of the things ppl like about these games is that you have to learn most things by yourself. It also sparks the community in a way that other games can't, cause we discuss our experiments and findings and most of the lore is meant to be discovered in this way, by the community snapping together clues and theories. Not at all easy to achieve as a Dev, so give it time, I promise you it pays back tenfold and that's the point in all soulslike games. Tough, fair, and deeply rewarding

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Vee_Spade:

Originally posted by Devil Dog:

I'm bad in this game. Really bad. I mention this every time someone complains how difficult the game is. Because the game is difficult, sometimes annoyingly so. In fact I don't call it "The Surge" anymore. I call it "The Grind."

This is how I trained myself to get past most encounters, boss or otherwise - jump in, jump out. After getting whacked to death by that first boss, the PAX robot, I spent several hours basically messing with that first level, after I cleared an area, I would simulate attacks to practice my combos.

What sucks the most for new players, this game has horrible in-game help. There is none! No one knew how combos worked, the real benefit of stacking implants, this weapon over that weapon or armor types. Hell I didn't even figure out WTF banking tech was until I pressed on it, went outside, got whacked, and didn't lose my loot for the first time!

The levels are annoying, I think on purpose. You've never been there before, but like others have mentioned, a few play throughs and you start to recognize 'landmarks.' You'll grind and grind and grind, and then you'll grind some more. And as someone mentioned, almost comically, but kinda true, you gotta do some research. Unfortunately, at least in the beginning, that 'research' will come at the price of dying and dying. Again because the game sucks at describing almost anything. But that probably goes with the story line - something went wrong right after your character got altered.

I picked up an implant that changed for the most part, how I play the game now - the Modaxinol Injector. Can't remember the explanation, but it slows time. The security guards with that electric tazer shock staff, would one-shot me every time. Now, I jump in and smack them once, enough to juice up my energy, then I hit that Modaxinol implant - BOOM! One dead security guard :)

Yeah, I mean one of the things ppl like about these games is that you have to learn most things by yourself. It also sparks the community in a way that other games can't, cause we discuss our experiments and findings and most of the lore is meant to be discovered in this way, by the community snapping together clues and theories. Not at all easy to achieve as a Dev, so give it time, I promise you it pays back tenfold and that's the point in all soulslike games. Tough, fair, and deeply rewarding

"Get gud" is a Souls-like meme for a reason. ;)

[Jeba]

this game has great level design

we should forgive your bad taste

[Devil Dog]

Originally posted by Jeba:

this game has great level design

we should forgive your bad taste

Huh?

[FullMetalSlag]

I just dont get how everybody is whining about OHK all the time...unless you deliberately dont use Health Implants, even the Nanobeams are survivable..of course if you play a Glass Cannon, then dont get hit?

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Get the latest patch.

" - The damage of the beam ranged attack of the Nano mass enemy has been reduced"

It's not going to help much, I don't think. That was easilt the Nano Mass' least dangerous attack. The shard throw is still ranged and still deals massive damage, for one, plus the Nano Mass' damage comes primarily from the triple-swipe attack. It doesn't hit as hard, but it can easily hit three times with the speed and range on that thing.

[Briosh]

I believe that if you have to train yourself to do the exact same thing like jumping in and out for every fight, it still is bad design. What about player choice? I like moving around alot and dodging but still i will miss one hit after 10 battles and die like that.
"Git gud" or "Filthy casuls" does not help. Congratulations if you can handle the game but my problem is not the difficulty. Its the grind and the punishment without reward. For example i dodge one hit by ducking, i hit the enemy with a high impact weapon, HE DOES NOT stagger, he hits back, i'm dead. Where is the satisfaction from my dodge? Why did my counter-hit go to waste? I never felt like that in Dark Souls or Bloodborne which are similar games. I don't remember if it was like this in Lords of the Fallen

[holy-death]

Originally posted by Briosh:

I believe that if you have to train yourself to do the exact same thing like jumping in and out for every fight, it still is bad design. What about player choice? I like moving around alot and dodging but still i will miss one hit after 10 battles and die like that.

Unless you are good enough to not get hit or block attacks that you can block (not all are blockable, but the ones that are usually reward you with a powerful counter-attack that can be devastating, especially when hitting enemy's unarmored body parts) using one or two health boosts gives you enough room to make a mistake so you can fix it by healing up.

Equipment system is so well designed that it's very flexible to switch implants/weapons/armor in accordance to your needs (unlike in Dark Souls, where you HAD to dedicate your build entirely to something.

Then there is learning enemy attacks (both blockable and unblockable) as well as getting proficient with your weapons (literally - it will make you attack faster and harder, less literally - knowing combos will help you a lot in using correct attacks at correct time). It does mean you have to "git gud" though, but that's exactly what you should expect from a soulslike game ("git gud" = learn how to play the game).

Hitting enemies with a high impact weapon WILL stagger them, but there are also other factors you have to consider (attacking armored body part or unarmored, what kind of armor you wear, what kind of weapon you are using, how many hits you get in, etc.). It's worth keeping in mind that enemies won't stagger twice, so if you tend to spam attacks all the time (like, trying to get your triple combo hit twice in a row), then enemies will hit you back. Like in Souls you have to know when it's smart to back off.

[♤ S p a d e Ƨ ♤]

Originally posted by Briosh:

I believe that if you have to train yourself to do the exact same thing like jumping in and out for every fight, it still is bad design. What about player choice? I like moving around alot and dodging but still i will miss one hit after 10 battles and die like that.
"Git gud" or "Filthy casuls" does not help. Congratulations if you can handle the game but my problem is not the difficulty. Its the grind and the punishment without reward. For example i dodge one hit by ducking, i hit the enemy with a high impact weapon, HE DOES NOT stagger, he hits back, i'm dead. Where is the satisfaction from my dodge? Why did my counter-hit go to waste? I never felt like that in Dark Souls or Bloodborne which are similar games.

Well there's your problem, that's no way to stagger an enemy, when you dodge by jumping/ducking, you just get a good opening, frames-wise, no staggering.

To stagger and "parry", for lack of a better word, you need to block on a timely manner a blockable attack, which will lightly stagger the opponent, allowing at least one hit that does extra dmg.

You can also stagger an enemy, by timing your hits and even pauses, and this mechanic does not even depend on impact. An enemy can be staggered in 2 hits with most weapons, even fully armored. Consecutive hits though can break the effect, so no button mushing.

You can literally beat a fully armored Cerberus by hiting him twice and timing your pauses. He will stagger, and then start tripping and falling. I often beat them like so while walking slowly cause now that I know how to play them I feel I need to show them whos boss, after running from them for so long and getting my butt handed to me feeling there's no weakness to them

[Briosh]

holy-death that's a well informed response. i'm trying to find out if and where i'm wrong. But i'll never accept that "not get even one hit" is good game design. Maybe if you manage it it feels good but I generally believe the player deserves some error. Regarding equipment, implants and generally fluidity of combat i love it and thats why i'm discussing about it. Because i wish i enjoyed it more. If i'm the only one who feels like that then so be it. Maybe i have to 'untrain' my self from lots of dark souls and bloodborne. But still, my topic is about 1-hit kills