Enemy Damage

[Slappy The Clown]

After reading through the forums ive found a lot of people agreeing with the fact enemies do a ridiculous amount of damage.

I figured myself having played through the Dark Soul series id be used to things like this now, getting hit and dying super quickly from some of the most basic enemies.

But the Surge is different, All if not most enemies will kill you in 1-3 hits, despite having the strongest armour equipped at the time and being a few levels higher than whats recommended for the area im in. So yes i do agree that the enemies damage output should be modified a little, at least making it so their basics attacks dont chop through your health bar faster than King Richard cut through his wives, not the only issue i have with the game but its definetly encouraging me to not pick it up again having died about 20 times just outside the spawn room from some ♥♥♥♥er and flamer

Ill add that i am enjoying the game for its variety but something with camera angles and slight combat bugs are making it less desirable

[Limp Squirrel]

The more I play the Surge, the more I accept the very harsh damage from enemies. Some can be scaled back just a little bit (especially the security guards with the instant stun drone and two hit kill). However, a significant issue with damage is when it happens during multihit locked combo animations, as you have no control over your character during that short period.

In a game like this, you should have should absolute control of your character. Similar to the Souls games, commitment is a major factor. But multihit combos are very unreliable and kind of nullify the point of commitment because they render you vulnerable to circumstantial damage.

I would suggest the following to perhaps mitigate some of that frustration:

1. Make all button press a single animation and manually extend the combo chain to more attacks to compensate.
For example, the twin rigged HH combo is a single hit followed by a two hit follow up. I would suggest breaking up the second H into two separate H button presses with each press representing the actual animations of the original two hit combo. I don't know how much work that would be and whether it would require a whole new animation recording session, or if it's possible to just retroactively split up the current animation (since they need to flow).

1. Give players a reasonable 'hyper armor' buff during locked animations.
By giving players a split second armor increase during combo follow ups, any potential damage from enemies just stancing through your attacks are is somewhat mitigated, and would allow players to more easily cope with unintentional damage. Cause to reiterate, with enemies causing this much damage, full control of your character is very important, and commitment because a gamble when your follow ups attacks stagger randomly. It's all about finding an opening, and attacking, but it shouldn't bite you in the buttocks for 'overextending' when you have no way out. You can't plan ahead if the impact of your attacks isn't guaranteed.

Any feedback?

[Burusagi]

If you buff your Stamina via Implants, the wombo-combo of the Security Guards can simply be blocked and countered. The biggest thing with that particular attack is that it takes so much Stamina to block that it seems like it is unblockable at first - but as I said, it isn't. Just takes a lot of Stamina.

[PrittyShetty]

Originally posted by Squidcake:

The more I play the Surge, the more I accept the very harsh damage from enemies. Some can be scaled back just a little bit (especially the security guards with the instant stun drone and two hit kill). However, a significant issue with damage is when it happens during multihit locked combo animations, as you have no control over your character during that short period.

In a game like this, you should have should absolute control of your character. Similar to the Souls games, commitment is a major factor. But multihit combos are very unreliable and kind of nullify the point of commitment because they render you vulnerable to circumstantial damage.

I would suggest the following to perhaps mitigate some of that frustration:

1. Make all button press a single animation and manually extend the combo chain to more attacks to compensate.
For example, the twin rigged HH combo is a single hit followed by a two hit follow up. I would suggest breaking up the second H into two separate H button presses with each press representing the actual animations of the original two hit combo. I don't know how much work that would be and whether it would require a whole new animation recording session, or if it's possible to just retroactively split up the current animation (since they need to flow).

1. Give players a reasonable 'hyper armor' buff during locked animations.
By giving players a split second armor increase during combo follow ups, any potential damage from enemies just stancing through your attacks are is somewhat mitigated, and would allow players to more easily cope with unintentional damage. Cause to reiterate, with enemies causing this much damage, full control of your character is very important, and commitment because a gamble when your follow ups attacks stagger randomly. It's all about finding an opening, and attacking, but it shouldn't bite you in the buttocks for 'overextending' when you have no way out. You can't plan ahead if the impact of your attacks isn't guaranteed.

Any feedback?

the point of combos here is that you combo only after you stagger stun your enemy... basicly you are showing off when you know you can, running and and just straght comboing every enemy the same would be dumb. Accept that combos are not fight starter, but more like extended finisher and you will be fine. As for you gettigns taggered, with proper armor you can block even durring mechanalis beatdown combo, so again no problem there. Adjust armor and you playstyle, dont try to change the game so you can pick a combo after you see a guy and him dying during it...

[PrittyShetty]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

If you buff your Stamina via Implants, the wombo-combo of the Security Guards can simply be blocked and countered. The biggest thing with that particular attack is that it takes so much Stamina to block that it seems like it is unblockable at first - but as I said, it isn't. Just takes a lot of Stamina.

I would also add that there is no loot behind them, they are like optional minibosses (like the big crane things) or as proof of your mastery over the combat system. Keep them like they are, they drop nice stuff, but you pay with sweat and blood to get it.

[Limp Squirrel]

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

the point of combos here is that you combo only after you stagger stun your enemy... basicly you are showing off when you know you can, running and and just straght comboing every enemy the same would be dumb. Accept that combos are not fight starter, but more like extended finisher and you will be fine. As for you gettigns taggered, with proper armor you can block even durring mechanalis beatdown combo, so again no problem there. Adjust armor and you playstyle, dont try to change the game so you can pick a combo after you see a guy and him dying during it...

I very well aware of that, I am also specifically talking about instances where you get hit by an enemy midcombo after initiating a full combo when the enemy got staggered. Of course you're not supposed to fly with a combo from the get go. I can record a few instances of what I'm talking about. If you never combo, it's unlikely you'll get this, but full combos have a pretty high potential to render to vulnerable for inescapable damage because the enemy armoured through your attacks.

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

If you buff your Stamina via Implants, the wombo-combo of the Security Guards can simply be blocked and countered. The biggest thing with that particular attack is that it takes so much Stamina to block that it seems like it is unblockable at first - but as I said, it isn't. Just takes a lot of Stamina.

I would also add that there is no loot behind them, they are like optional minibosses (like the big crane things) or as proof of your mastery over the combat system. Keep them like they are, they drop nice stuff, but you pay with sweat and blood to get it.

There is loot IN them though.

Their armour is arguably one of the best, if not the best, in the game.

But yeah, at that point of the game they are definitely mini-boss material.

[PrittyShetty]

Again why is it a problem? You wanted to show off (doing a combo) and he recovered fast enough, and caught you with pants down. Your char can do exactly the same thing to them. I get caught mid combos frequently and i dont mind, it makes it feel even better when i can finish full combo without getting hit, cause that requires to know when to do it, not just to press it at 40%of mob hp...

I spent 3/4 of the game running in lynx gear so everytime i got interupted i died, spent more than hour dyign to jumpers in zone 2, died 50 times in zone 4 to flamers/gas explosions and you know what? now i can do 2 jumpers at the same time, and flamers are piece of cake. Hell i spent 3 hours on black carberos to get the whole set bonus and 2.0. I raged hard, quit multiple times to get a beer after got 1 shotted, in the end learned and changed my armor...

Only adjustments I would make are to flash light radius on armors, lynx compared to proteus is night and day, and sometimes the camera engle gets you killed.

[PrittyShetty]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

I would also add that there is no loot behind them, they are like optional minibosses (like the big crane things) or as proof of your mastery over the combat system. Keep them like they are, they drop nice stuff, but you pay with sweat and blood to get it.

There is loot IN them though.

Their armour is arguably one of the best, if not the best, in the game.

But yeah, at that point of the game they are definitely mini-boss material.

By loot i ment something you need to progression/important implant, you can get the armor later or you go hard mode and get it early after you died 10 times to the same guy. I see it same way as the 2.0 weapons you can get something better if you make the hard choice

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

There is loot IN them though.

Their armour is arguably one of the best, if not the best, in the game.

But yeah, at that point of the game they are definitely mini-boss material.

By loot i ment something you need to progression/important implant, you can get the armor later or you go hard mode and get it early after you died 10 times to the same guy. I see it same way as the 2.0 weapons you can get something better if you make the hard choice

There is indeed a distinct advantage to get it early.

Gotta pull off flawless limb cuts though, since there's just four of them and the armour set is made up out of four parts... >_>

[PrittyShetty]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

By loot i ment something you need to progression/important implant, you can get the armor later or you go hard mode and get it early after you died 10 times to the same guy. I see it same way as the 2.0 weapons you can get something better if you make the hard choice

There is indeed a distinct advantage to get it early.

Gotta pull off flawless limb cuts though, since there's just four of them and the armour set is made up out of four parts... >_>

Yep, got non cut combo on the last piece, too much incidental damage on other parts maybe, cause i was targeting the piece whole fight, had to wait for them to reset after 3rd area.

[Slappy The Clown]

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

There is indeed a distinct advantage to get it early.

Gotta pull off flawless limb cuts though, since there's just four of them and the armour set is made up out of four parts... >_>

Yep, got non cut combo on the last piece, too much incidental damage on other parts maybe, cause i was targeting the piece whole fight, had to wait for them to reset after 3rd area.

I only realised i could armour from them during the second time you bump into them, the headgear is the best early game one you can get, despite it looking like youve got 2 giant eyeballs

[PrittyShetty]

Originally posted by ZedDawg:

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

Yep, got non cut combo on the last piece, too much incidental damage on other parts maybe, cause i was targeting the piece whole fight, had to wait for them to reset after 3rd area.

I only realised i could armour from them during the second time you bump into them, the headgear is the best early game one you can get, despite it looking like youve got 2 giant eyeballs

Actuly not sure why is everybody so hyped about the set, honestly not sure for what you need all that stamina for, i find proteus/bloody proteus better suited the your needs. Casual mobs gonna die before you run out of stamina and taking a break after few hits and dodges and looking for openings feels right too.

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

Originally posted by ZedDawg:

I only realised i could armour from them during the second time you bump into them, the headgear is the best early game one you can get, despite it looking like youve got 2 giant eyeballs

Actuly not sure why is everybody so hyped about the set, honestly not sure for what you need all that stamina for, i find proteus/bloody proteus better suited the your needs. Casual mobs gonna die before you run out of stamina and taking a break after few hits and dodges and looking for openings feels right too.

It is still the best set passive in the game (or rather tied with LYNX I suppose), and Sentinel class armour is the best in the game - pretty much as "tanky" (as far as anyone can be tanky in a Soulslike) as Goliath at like half the cost of sacrifices to wear it.

[PrittyShetty]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by PrittyShetty:

Actuly not sure why is everybody so hyped about the set, honestly not sure for what you need all that stamina for, i find proteus/bloody proteus better suited the your needs. Casual mobs gonna die before you run out of stamina and taking a break after few hits and dodges and looking for openings feels right too.

It is still the best set passive in the game (or rather tied with LYNX I suppose), and Sentinel class armour is the best in the game - pretty much as "tanky" (as far as anyone can be tanky in a Soulslike) as Goliath at like half the cost of sacrifices to wear it.

Might be playstyle but i am never stamina starved, but ensuring i am allways full HP from proteus feels like i can be more agressive. Getting hit for half your HP? just pop a quick heal for evergy and be full again :) Out of curiosity what are you running for weapons? I am twin rigged user, but no offence injectables to buff them, dont feel the need.

[Burusagi]

I'm not using Gorgon. I'm using Black Cerberus, which is probably one of the worst sets in the game, but it's Fashion Souls is on point.