Combat is terrible -

[Sink]

Plain and simple. Nothing but your character being animation locked with no alternatives, with no instant startups, and the enemy AI with nearly unlimited stability, instant startups, and abilities which we ever get access to.

And you cannot give me the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t of this guy HAD no experience. He is sitting here cutting these enemies down with combos, you are telling me he is capable of complex thought, just not the ability to swing a weapon faster?

And you cannot say its b/c of their rig b/c you GET their rigs. So things like strength startup speed and the like would all be the same since its controlled by an exo rig not your actual ♥♥♥♥ing skeletal system.

[nullforceomega]

Ehh, I'd actually assume they started low powered then scaled up, that's pretty much how it's being done right now.

What I want to know is how that rig is supposed to actually help anyone at all, it doesn't have a spine support.

[Terra Blade]

Originally posted by InstableMonster:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

If they super-powered the exo-skeletons they would just tear muscles and rip bones out of their sockets and stuff, lol. The rigs have to be within human parameters still.

yeah thats why I point out the brain controls it, it's like trying to punch yourself in the face full force, your body knows it is gonna hurt itself so you will subconciously slow down, just like your brain wont command your arm to move at a speed where it could injure itself, even if it were possible to

Actually, that is why it makes sense the enemies are a lot stronger. In terms of the crazy workers it's because they are crazy. I've worked in psych wards and 'memory units' (basically where they stick dementia patients), and those people are crazy strong because they don't have any concern anymore for their well being at times. For example I once had a guy with an obviously compound fracture still try to hit me with his broken arm, repeatedly. So I can see the people driven insane by the surge not being concerned with their own well being and operating at very unsafe levels with their rig. Heck, just look at how they move before they start fighting...it's obvious something is very wrong with their bodies.

As for the security, well we get a security rig, but the armor (which holds the combat servos) are scavenged. Even if you want to argue we use schematics, we also can't to flips like some of the security can, or use their stun/missles. So maybe it's an experience thing. Remember this is Warren's first day on the job as well, and he didn't get full training or even understand how bad his rig was working until someone pointed out his power core was busted.

So lore wise...it makes sense all around if you actually think about it. But in terms of mechanics this is how a souls game should play. By punishing you for over-extending yourself in a fight, and not playing smartly by just mashing buttons.

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Terra Blade:

Originally posted by InstableMonster:

yeah thats why I point out the brain controls it, it's like trying to punch yourself in the face full force, your body knows it is gonna hurt itself so you will subconciously slow down, just like your brain wont command your arm to move at a speed where it could injure itself, even if it were possible to

Actually, that is why it makes sense the enemies are a lot stronger. In terms of the crazy workers it's because they are crazy. I've worked in psych wards and 'memory units' (basically where they stick dementia patients), and those people are crazy strong because they don't have any concern anymore for their well being at times. For example I once had a guy with an obviously compound fracture still try to hit me with his broken arm, repeatedly. So I can see the people driven insane by the surge not being concerned with their own well being and operating at very unsafe levels.

Not to mention that they are "zombified" and sort of controlled by the Rogue Process at this point. And it probably has no care in the world for the well-being of the human attached to the rig at all. You're probably really just fighting their rig and the human body just goes along for the ride as it has no free will anymore.

[Axel]

A few things:

A. Enemies do stumble and fall. That's why I explicitly use Heavy Duty weapons and it's a tactic I use very often.

B. You're not meant to grind for the override panels. You think in you're meant to grind to level 80 from 20 to open a doorway? They're progression locked so you go back to them later on. Just like the security doors.

C. If you bothered to notice you'd find that environmental effects only apply to enemies that are Robots (including the ones in R&D) and liquidator enemies which are personnel who worked in hazardous environments before the incident and thus have the right equipment. Every other enemy is prone to environmental damage which can be demonstrated by using the flammable toxic gas on the flamethrower guys.




It's obvious you haven't quite grasped the game and although there are bad points I can raise myself. You've failed to present any that are anything other than lack of experience or negligence to notice on your part.

[Alex]

git gud scrub

[dr46onfusion]

1 issue is in the controls, the camera is locked on but seems to turn and transition incredibly slow, like camera smoothness was on. You are better off playing on KB+M and not lock onto a enemy...

Especially when it comes to dashing and dodging, it's in fixed direction causing you to dodge into a hole or off ledges sometimes, when you wanted the character to dodge in a fully free 360 degrees.

[dr46onfusion]

Originally posted by lephroTV:

Originally posted by Pocket Dog:

I've been gaming for over 35 years, which is most likely longer than you've been alive, so a casual I am not, thank you. I'd also like to think that I've put in effort, what with having played for over 30 hours and being near the end. Maybe you should stop speculating on my playing abilities and change your smug, holier-than-thou attitude. Or, how about this, tough guy: put your money where your large mouth is and create a youtube video demonstrating your 'elite' skills. I'll be waiting...

I think we got a missunderstanding.. or lets say .. a different understanding of what a casual player is. For me a casual player is someone who is not willing to "sacrifice" (cant find a better word atm) all his / her time into one game. For me a casual player is someone who plays on occasion. Most casual players have not enough time or dont spend enough time to dive deeply into the mechanics of such games, which is pretty much key to souls like games.

Iam gaming for over 20 years and Souls-likes teached me one thing: If you die, you are not good enough. Its really as simple as that. Many people here will tell you to "git gud" and such rude stuff... but all they want to say is: The enemys are not to strong. You are just doing something wrong.

That ONLY applies to dark souls, where the games are polished and get constant updates to tweak it's performance over time.

The Surge has none, as Deck 13 doesn't want to maintain it, just release it and suddenly go quiet.

[Terra Blade]

Originally posted by Kai:

1 issue is in the controls, the camera is locked on but seems to turn and transition incredibly slow, like camera smoothness was on. You are better off playing on KB+M and not lock onto a enemy...

Especially when it comes to dashing and dodging, it's in fixed direction causing you to dodge into a hole or off ledges sometimes, when you wanted the character to dodge in a fully free 360 degrees.

Um...what? I can lock on, switch targets, dodge in any direction, and fight almost anywhere just fine. If you just feel more comfortable with the keyboard and mouse that is fine. But I paly with a controller and it all works fine.

Some weapons however are more dangerous to use in tight spaces then others. Like heavy weapons are very easy to initiate the spin move which could have you accidently spin right off a bridge. Or take to big a step with an attack and fall off. Both could happen in DS, and both can just be avoided by keeping your weapon and enviroment in mind.

Originally posted by Kai:

Originally posted by lephroTV:

I think we got a missunderstanding.. or lets say .. a different understanding of what a casual player is. For me a casual player is someone who is not willing to "sacrifice" (cant find a better word atm) all his / her time into one game. For me a casual player is someone who plays on occasion. Most casual players have not enough time or dont spend enough time to dive deeply into the mechanics of such games, which is pretty much key to souls like games.

Iam gaming for over 20 years and Souls-likes teached me one thing: If you die, you are not good enough. Its really as simple as that. Many people here will tell you to "git gud" and such rude stuff... but all they want to say is: The enemys are not to strong. You are just doing something wrong.

That ONLY applies to dark souls, where the games are polished and get constant updates to tweak it's performance over time.

The Surge has none, as Deck 13 doesn't want to maintain it, just release it and suddenly go quiet.

The game only JUST came out a week ago. Cool your jets, and DS is not being constantly updated. I can think of...maybe five at the absolute best updates not including the DLC since release. I do know the first update didn't come out for almost three or four months, and I remember it because it nerfed the candlestick for my sorceror.

The game may hae some annoying bugs (I know, i've run into a few). But every time I die it's because I did something wrong. Maybe I tried for that last bit of health on a smelter bot with almost no health, and got squashed. Or I got impatient and tried to trade with a cerberus with no health kits. I can't really recall any 'cheap' deaths that I could have, or learned, to avoid by simply being more patient and using better strategy.

They have said they are working on patches, but since this is multi-platform they can't fix one before they fix the others. It's stupid, but that is how multi-platform games work. So give Deck13 a chance to iron out the bugs, and some time to actually write a patch.

[Varagonax]

Theres a big problem in how the game distinguishes multiple attacks and mutliple hits with one attack. I dont think that the combo systems is bad, but there isnt a single weapon in the game whose moveset does not include a basic attack combo that takes 2 or so presses for more then two, distinct attacks. Some weapons like the single rigged moveset has attacks that has 3 distinct attack off of one button press. I get the punish mechanic, but they really dont need these long winded one button attack chains. Attacks like the helicopter with twinrigs should be one button into a combo, but when your second attack with singlerigs is a garunteed two attack combo you can wind up attacking nothing for several seconds after a kill. I understand the need to punish for getting greedy, but it gets old quick.

[ZAToM]

so much better than ds combat, practically the same but u have drones and finishers, much better

[King of Yugoslavia]

Originally posted by BurritoBandit:

Plain and simple. Nothing but your character being animation locked with no alternatives, with no instant startups, and the enemy AI with nearly unlimited stability, instant startups, and abilities which we ever get access to.

And you cannot give me the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t of this guy HAD no experience. He is sitting here cutting these enemies down with combos, you are telling me he is capable of complex thought, just not the ability to swing a weapon faster?

And you cannot say its b/c of their rig b/c you GET their rigs. So things like strength startup speed and the like would all be the same since its controlled by an exo rig not your actual ♥♥♥♥ing skeletal system.

Actually, the combat here is quite deep. There are several RB-RT combos, dash attacks, jump attacks, and AI stunned pretty easily with especially when aiming at unarmed parts or the head if armor is everywhere.

[holy-death]

Originally posted by Kai:

1 issue is in the controls, the camera is locked on but seems to turn and transition incredibly slow, like camera smoothness was on. You are better off playing on KB+M and not lock onto a enemy...

KB+M here. No issues whatsoever and I lock on enemies almost exclusively. Maybe you should check your camera settings in options?

Originally posted by Kai:

That ONLY applies to dark souls, where the games are polished and get constant updates to tweak it's performance over time.

The Surge has none, as Deck 13 doesn't want to maintain it, just release it and suddenly go quiet.

Yeah, sure. Actually, no, I am calling out on your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ here. Darks Souls were FAR from being polished and didn't get "constant updates". There is already a patch in beta version and developers respondend here to say that they are taking notes on some things to discuss them internally, so I guess they aren't going down quietly. But hey, whatever it takes to throw baseless ♥♥♥♥ at people, right?

[Varagonax]

Originally posted by holy-death:

Originally posted by Kai:

1 issue is in the controls, the camera is locked on but seems to turn and transition incredibly slow, like camera smoothness was on. You are better off playing on KB+M and not lock onto a enemy...

KB+M here. No issues whatsoever and I lock on enemies almost exclusively. Maybe you should check your camera settings in options?

Originally posted by Kai:

That ONLY applies to dark souls, where the games are polished and get constant updates to tweak it's performance over time.

The Surge has none, as Deck 13 doesn't want to maintain it, just release it and suddenly go quiet.

Yeah, sure. Actually, no, I am calling out on your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ here. Darks Souls were FAR from being polished and didn't get "constant updates". There is already a patch in beta version and developers respondend here to say that they are taking notes on some things to discuss them internally, so I guess they aren't going down quietly. But hey, whatever it takes to throw baseless ♥♥♥♥ at people, right?

One HUGE difference is The Surge has exquisite hitbox and hit detection. Yeah, its combat could use some polish. Maybe different movesets between weapon types (as far as I can tell the movesets are the same between weapon classes such as twinrigged and two handed.)? I also feel some of the move sets could be seperated, as some moves are two very distinct attacks but require only one input.

[Axel]

The hitboxes in the Surge are much nicer than DS. In DS you get hit by an invisible force.

[InstableMonster]

Originally posted by Kai:

Originally posted by lephroTV:

I think we got a missunderstanding.. or lets say .. a different understanding of what a casual player is. For me a casual player is someone who is not willing to "sacrifice" (cant find a better word atm) all his / her time into one game. For me a casual player is someone who plays on occasion. Most casual players have not enough time or dont spend enough time to dive deeply into the mechanics of such games, which is pretty much key to souls like games.

Iam gaming for over 20 years and Souls-likes teached me one thing: If you die, you are not good enough. Its really as simple as that. Many people here will tell you to "git gud" and such rude stuff... but all they want to say is: The enemys are not to strong. You are just doing something wrong.

That ONLY applies to dark souls, where the games are polished and get constant updates to tweak it's performance over time.

The Surge has none, as Deck 13 doesn't want to maintain it, just release it and suddenly go quiet.

pwahahaha the developpers have been active on the forums, are putting out beta branches, etc

They have been really active since launch. covering your eyes so you can live in denial just to think you're right won't change that.