Damage Types are poorly conveyed to the player

[Mr. Cone]

The title says it all, between the four damage types (Crushing, Thrust, Slashing, and Elemental) there's little information on what is good against specific enemies. Do I use Crushing against Robotic (non-exo suit) foes? or do I double down on Elemental? Is Thrust type weapons the way to go? or do I Slash my opponents wrists in frustration?

There's a distinct lack of information on these particular things and the help function in the game is extremely poor at giving the player the neccessary information to build upon and make proper informed decisions. In addition, the lack of instructions outside of the game is another problematic issue and would alleviate much of the confusion if or when they become available to the player.

(Just for the record, I own the game on the PS4 and since there's no "Official Forums" regarding this game I thought it prudent to put this here for discussion purposes.)

[nullforceomega]

I just tested every MK 19 weapon I have (including the entire codename: series of weapons) in the scenario I described above, in this case gorgon guards in the Echelon 9 HQ area. In ALL cases high elemental damage weapons did LESS damage to unarmored bodyparts, as did slashing based attacks, CRUSHING damage on the other hand dealt more damage to unarmored organics. Thrust damage appeared to be unaltered.

So no, I definitely wasn't wrong.

And stop the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insults, I will report you if you continue.

[jackhickman999]

引用自 nullforceomega：

Really? I strongly suggest you actually go test it out before you accuse someone of stating a falsehood. And back off with the confrontational language, you can say what you wanted without acting like a fool.

Using a high elemental damage weapon go engage any enemy with a helmet, use a thrust attack to strike the head. Record your single strike damage, now do the same to the same class of enemy without a helmet. This is completely reproducible accross all human enemies in the game, elemental does less damage to unarmored organics.

I have tested this over and over again with every high-elemental damage weapon except the newest ones released in Cutting Edge.

Now, if you can provide evidence to the contrary or that Cutting Edge included a patch to elemental damage I will back off, but until otherwise proven I'll use my 100 hrs plus of experience vs your assertion.

Also, what the hell is your comment even supposed to mean? It comes across as pure jibberish with no meaningful argument for your assertion.

Well show me the damage because your clearly further into the game than and due to the high numbers the elemental damage doing less damage than so you'll have to show me this "big difference".

Try not to be that sensitive you snowflake if someone thing what you said is bull it ain't something to cry to mother about XD.

I don't need to report anyone on steam because I'm not four just because someone thought that I was wrong.

[nullforceomega]

Wait a moment, I think I may have found a glitch, what armor do you normally use? I need to test really quick before I fire off a bug report to the devs.

All of my tests were done wearing Black Cerberus set, I took it off so the set damage bonus wouldn't kick in just now and the damage values changed massively.

When wearing the Black Cerberus set ALL elemental damage weapons dealt less damage to unarmored regions (I have screenshots that show a discrepency of up to 40 damage less), naked elemental damage did more across the board, I need to see if this is something specific to Black Cerberus.

And stop the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insulting tone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you, there is no reason for it other than to be an asshat. And I will report anyone for being a jerk for no reason.

[jackhickman999]

引用自 nullforceomega：

Wait a moment, I think I may have found a glitch, what armor do you normally use? I need to test really quick before I fire off a bug report to the devs.

All of my tests were done wearing Black Cerberus set, I took it off so the set damage bonus wouldn't kick in just now and the damage values changed massively.

When wearing the Black Cerberus set ALL elemental damage weapons dealt less damage to unarmored regions (I have screenshots that show a discrepency of up to 40 damage less), naked elemental damage did more across the board, I need to see if this is something specific to Black Cerberus.

And stop the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insulting tone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you, there is no reason for it other than to be an asshat. And I will report anyone for being a jerk for no reason.

No I don't use any armor set bonuses after testing a few more weapons the only postive negative is coming from crush/thrust damage but it doesn't really need a discussion because the damage difference extra damage being ignored is 0.25%.

[nullforceomega]

Okay, here's what is happening, the armor you wear has an effect on your damage output as stated in it's description. But Black Cerberus is not dealing damage consistently with the other suits, it appears to have a very detrimental effect on elemental damage specifically.

The damage type effects that you have described are the way that the game is supposed to be functioning but (I believe) due to the BC set having the damage bonus for high energy it seems to be causing some kind of wierdness with the calculation.

I have placed a report in the Steam technical help board as well as reporting at the Focus Interactive forums bug reporting board.

So, I retract my previous statement about elemental damage being less effective on unarmored humans, this was an incorrect assumption based on observations made while using a bugged set.

[jackhickman999]

引用自 nullforceomega：

Okay, here's what is happening, the armor you wear has an effect on your damage output as stated in it's description. But Black Cerberus is not dealing damage consistently with the other suits, it appears to have a very detrimental effect on elemental damage specifically.

The damage type effects that you have described are the way that the game is supposed to be functioning but (I believe) due to the BC set having the damage bonus for high energy it seems to be causing some kind of wierdness with the calculation.

I'm going to go ahead and report this to the devs so they can take a look at it.

So, I retract my previous statement about elemental damage being lower to unarmored humans, this was an incorrect assumption based on observations made while using a bugged set.

It could that it is only supposed to boost non-elemental damage or it's because different weapons types have buffs and maluses to attacking certain body parts which is percentage based.

Hitting an enemy in the head (unarmored) with a heavy duty weapon boosts damage.

Hitting an enemy in the leg (unarmored) with twin rigged also provides bonus damage.

Im not a much of a single rigged , one handed or staff user though from what I know they tend to do bit less that stated damage in all areas and basically have no cons to where you hit whereas twin rigged and heavy duty do.

One handed weapons always seem to do a fair amount less they are supposed due to this i think.

Also the damage values are effected if they have two types of damage its counts as split and thus they take like 1 less damage or like 1 more. only referiing to 2 of crush/elemental/slash.

Some weapon also just have weird effects where they do more damage than they are stated to be doing which is why I thought elemental did slightly more vs unarmored and slash doing less.

They is also a crush weapon that is doing less than it stated to be doing as well.

[Malidictus]

Are you accounting for the fact that the in-game damage display is still bugged since launch? If you recall, the damage total that the game shows you is missing the Thrust damage component, and will consistently show lower damage than the weapon actually does.

This was for me the most evident when comparing the Bloodhound and the Titan. The Titan is listed as dealing 33 damage, but in fact deals 33 Smash and 13 Thrust for a total of 46. The Bloodhound is listed as dealing 31 damage, but in fact deals 18 Slash, 13 Smash and 29 Thrust for a total of 60. No wonder the Bloodhound deals so much more damage in practice, despite what the display claims.

I remember asking about how damage resistance worked a year or more ago, and I remember few people having a real idea. Is armour value subtracted from damage taken? Is it percentage damage resistance? Is it some kind of "rating?" Why is weapon damage listed as a sum of all its damage types (except Thrust) but armour protection is listed as the rounded average of all damage types (including Thrust)? I'm still not entirely sure.

[nullforceomega]

I think I've figured out why thrust damage isn't calculated in the display, it looks like thrust damage is very literally only used when you execute a thrust attack, it appears to replace crush and slash damage entirely in those instances. My tests are ongoing but it looks like we've been misunderstanding portions of the damage mechanics from the beginning.

Not that it actually matters one bit, using your preferred weapon is still the best way to go, even well into NG due to scaling.

Also, this isn't about the display in the stats panel, its about the damage numbers when actually using the weapons in combat.

[jackhickman999]

引用自 nullforceomega：

I think I've figured out why thrust damage isn't calculated in the display, it looks like thrust damage is very literally only used when you execute a thrust attack, it appears to replace crush and slash damage entirely in those instances. My tests are ongoing but it looks like we've been misunderstanding portions of the damage mechanics from the beginning.

Not that it actually matters one bit, using your preferred weapon is still the best way to go, even well into NG due to scaling.

I think the reason why it doesn't really explain the different damage type is they bearly matter at all.

Thrust damage in my experience doesn't work correctly at all for the most part it due the fact that a lot of the weapons seem to be missing their thrid digit in the thrust stat.

It looks like a really rushed mechanic that never really got fully fleshed out or even done right.
I think that as some weapons have secondary effects that aren't stated as well is why sometimes weapons seem to getting a mystery damage buff which I placed onto the damage types but that I don't think is even true/accurate.

I think they literally do next to nothing.

[nullforceomega]

It matters much more in NG+ and beyond, by Mk XX the Bloodhound has almost a thousand thrust damage, and it is extremely noticeable when compared to other weapons.

[jackhickman999]

引用自 nullforceomega：

It matters much more in NG+ and beyond, by Mk XX the Bloodhound has almost a thousand thrust damage, and it is extremely noticeable when compared to other weapons.

Im currently useing codename Zarathrusta and he has at the minute like 69 thrust damage right and its dealing about 25 less than a weapon with over 300 though.

So the difference would be about 90 extra damage between my Mk XVI and a bloodhound MK XX

[Malidictus]

引用自 nullforceomega：

I think I've figured out why thrust damage isn't calculated in the display, it looks like thrust damage is very literally only used when you execute a thrust attack, it appears to replace crush and slash damage entirely in those instances. My tests are ongoing but it looks like we've been misunderstanding portions of the damage mechanics from the beginning.

Back in the day, we considered that perhaps different attacks used different damage types, though nobody came up with a reproducable way to test this. If that were the case, though, the stats for some weapons make no sense. The Titan, for instance, has no Slash damage, yet it has most of the same attacks as the Bloodhound which does have Slash damage - the same horizontal swipes, crucially.

Then there's elemental damage. There are no "elemental attacks" in the game, so one would assume that elemental damage gets added to every attack regardless of the animation. Would make sense, considering it's added to the damage total. But then, why are Slash and Crush added together but Thrust isn't?

Moreover, if Thrust were left out of the damage total because it's a special mechanic, why is it calculated together with all the defence values when it comes to armour?

If thrust were truly only used for certain attacks, then my Bloodhound should do about the same damage as my Titan, yet it does considerably more damage on all attacks, be they against armour or against unarmoured bits. There's some kind of damage variability which does come down to the specific attack, but my gut tells me this is simple RPG damage types. Functionally identical, but different based on what your enemy resists more or less. I don't know this for a fact, but that's what my experience seems to suggest.

Oh, and the MG Judge V2.0. That has a similar "displayed" damage to a Bloodhound of the same level, but offers a lot less thrust. Consequently, the Bloodhound does a LOT more damage against unarmoured body parts, but the MG Judge does a LOT more damage against armour, which rarely resists its elemental damage component very strongly.

[Malidictus]

OK, so a few tests. I compared my Mk. III Bloodhound vs. my Mk. III Codename: Moonlight, both Heavy Duty weapons. The Bloodhound has 53 Slash, 39 Crush and 84 Thrust damage, 176 total. The Moonlight has 64 Elemental, 23 Crush and 13 Thrust. I tried this against enemies in Elite Hazard and Liqudator gear, so maybe not very fair to the Moonlight. In all cases the Moonlight did less damage, whether I was targeting a body part or not, whether the bodypart I was targeting was armoured or not. Not by much, though. Certainly not by as much as the numbers would suggest.

I'm still not sure what that means.

*edit*
Tried the same against a Proteus soldier. He still seemed to take more damage from my Bloodhound than from my Moonlight. Proteus armour doesn't have the same Elemental bias as the other two sets and it was still doing markedly less damage.

[Malyngo]

引用自 jackhickman999：

Im not a much of a single rigged , one handed or staff user though from what I know they tend to do bit less that stated damage in all areas and basically have no cons to where you hit whereas twin rigged and heavy duty do.

I think staff is doing less damage to the body. I don't have any hard numbers to back that up, but when I tried to get one of the armors, when trying to get the body part, it just seemed to take forever to get the enemy down. Since then, I only attack the body if I absolutely have to.

[Deranged Duck]

Thrust damage, could be your dodge plus your attack button,

Elemental could probably be your fire or "special" move that I know certain weapons get,

Slash is probably your basic attack.

Crush could be your jump or charge attack I'm betting.