My complaints with FF9 (NO tl;dr)

[Uchinanchu]

To start, I am somebody with a disproportionately large amount of time at the moment; shortly, the next part of my life will start and I will have almost no time, and that said, I've been spending my time coming back to games I've played and have not played to appreciate them (in the past 3-4 months or so I've completed Dark Souls 1/2, FF4/5/6/7/8/10, Grandia II, BoF 1/2/3/4 etc etc). Also I want to say that this is likely a very great game from what I could tell (back in 2000, and now), and this "review" isn't so much a "buy/pass" read as it is my feelings on the game, as it is.

This is my third attempt to get through FF9 and I'm starting to believe I never will make it through. Do not get me wrong, this is definitely a good game, but there are definitely turn offs for me that I would not say are incredibly specific to me.

I love story/narrative and 90% of the time a game's story elements will drive me through and finish what would otherwise be incredibly sub-par games, and FF9 likely has a great story to tell. HOWEVER, I personally can not relate or sympathize with FF9's cartoonish characters either now or back in 2000, ~16 years ago. This may be hypocritical on some level when most RPG's of the same era follow an uninspired "chosen hero saves the world" formula and FF9 does seem to go further off that beaten path to provide a story of more substance, yet at the same time those "boorish and tired" story foundations seem to provide more story growth and satisfaction over what I feel FF9 offers. If you've been following I have yet to finish the game and I am most definitely missing the ending and later parts of the story; my point is I don't feel compelled to see the story to its end, when I'm someone who otherwise obsesses over story/lore elements. To get just a little further into what I get from FF9, I'm someone who loves "high fantasy" and the classic FF themes, and nothing from FF9 feels immersive or "believable" to me. I think the game needs you to WANT to see its good sides, and I just don't have that in me at this moment. I will say that I do appreciate the different characters for the "classes" they emulate and what it does for battle strategy.

Which brings me to my next point. Perhaps 16 years ago I could be bothered to sit through FF9's battles, but today that simply isn't the case. Let me clarify here, FF9's battle systems has a LOT of good in it, and the battles could be threatening to one who prefers not to grind (which I applaud, too many cream puff games with no difficulty these days), but the battles simply last too long when each basic animation for attacking/using items/using magic takes so long that "active" battles might as well be on the "wait" setting. Waiting for your mage to use a spell and the next person to use an item = everything behind those actions becomes a traffic block/queue constipation, and then you're just sitting around twiddling your thumbs, which I would say is close to 80% of the battles, and actually probably more. This problem really fights against the battle systems finer points, like planning which abilities to equip to make battles easier, the pros/cons of equipping armor (weaker armors that let you learn stuff vs better armors that don't make use of those sweet AP you earn after battle) etc etc. Its almost forces you to just keep characters waiting and NOT defending just to avoid the queue overload, to put it another way. Everything that you want to focus on from the battles takes a faaaar back seat to the incredibly mind melting wait times of taking actions in battle. Detractors of other FF games (FF8 in particular comes to mind) will likely mention things like long summon times in other games, but the simple truth is that those actions weren't necessary in those games and could almost be entirely avoided. Personally, I find myself reading passages from a novel on my desk, otherwise my mind is racing thinking about various equips I need my characters to juggle and get through while the slow battles are slogging on... which means I probably need a mental break from playing since its so exhausting to wait! (yes, battle speed is turned to maximum, no it doesn't help a thing.)

Lastly, the one thing about this game that I can not forgive is the incredibly demonic way the game punishes you for not knowing its secrets. By secrets, I'm referring to missable items/equips/events etc. You could be .5 hrs into the game and have missed things that would prompt you to restart. For an old school player like me who grew up running along the borders of every map mashing the examine button happily finding secrets, FF9 takes it too damn far. In one instance, you encounter a giant new city/castle with 4 different areas to explore, which means theres a DAMN ton of map real estate to go "hunting for secrets/items". FF9 would have you do this after each story scene just in case you missed something, which is just too much for me to handle. At the point where I'm writing this review, I could not honestly tell you if I did miss anything or on the contrary, would NOT have missed anything if I didn't go through this process in that particular city, but the simple fact is that that process is just too laborious/tedious for me, someone who usually happily goes through those processes. The bottom line is, if you're scared of missables in this game, you need to play with a walkthrough of some sort (probably multiple walkthroughs, since most significant loot comes from opportunities to steal in battle), otherwise you're likely to blow a gasket just trying to make sure you're not missing anything.

These 3 points outlined above have made me accept that I probably will never finish this game to its end and though I am at peace with that, it is still kind of a sad realization. To everyone else that these points don't necessarily speak to, you will likely find a good game waiting for you here. Otherwise you may end up disappointed.

Twice over the years (TWICE) I have tried to complete the game, only to restart because I realized I missed far too many things in my playthrough, likely because i didn't realize the sheer amount of locations I wouldn't be able to come back to afterwards (for story reasons). Both times I stopped playing the restarted run because I likely just lost interest in the sheer undertaking. This last time I just realized I wasn't having fun and I'd rather be doing anything else. Maybe my fourth try to finish this game sometime in the future I'll finally get through, though I'd likely have to swallow my pride and just do it with a plethora of walkthroughs at hand to make sure I don't miss the things I want.

[ayoPAT]

At least you admit you're criticizing a game you haven't played through.

[ayoPAT]

Spoiler for you my friend, you will not 100% this game on your first playthrough. You simply will NOT. Simply for the fact that you must defeat Lich in under 12 hours to get the Excaliber II, coupled with the fact there are plenty of items in-game that are not obtainable after their respective pass on that particular "disc." Now there are plenty of free guides available online. From speedrunning to 100%-ing. It sounds more like the right game at the wrong time in your case. What makes me say that? Your opening line: "To start, I am somebody with a disproportionately large amount of time at the moment; shortly, the next part of my life will start and I will have almost no time..." That tells me a lot. That tells me you have something going on in your life, and you're punishing the game for something you're going through. Well, that's a strange thing to do. It also tells me you are most likely between the ages 25-30. I would guess around 27. I'm also guessing you quit around Ipsen's Castle (in-game.) But that has nothing to do with anything, just like you "going through stuff" has nothing to do with the actual gameplay and story of the game.

If you, OP, find any offense in anything here, it's unintentional, and only drives my point further home. Casually you should beat this game in under 30 hours. 9 or 10 hours in well-thought out speedrun. The truth is, I hate gamers like you. People that find reasons not to do something at the expense of the work itself, is just beyond me. Square-Enix even put a plethora of in-game cheats to ease the burden of grinding. I, and many others, find this game's story the most engaging from any Final Fantasy game of classics passed.

By the time you hit Lindblum(casually 3 hours in,) you see that's it's a tale, the unfolding of a "Boy saves girl and saves the world" love story. Does this angle seem played out? Yeah, that's kind of the point. From the producers' and creators' standpoint, this game is homage, an amalgammation of the stories that came before it. You also never have to use summon magic a single time in this game. Oh my gosh, yes the battle intros and such: I clocked some battle intros at 45 seconds before the ATB gauge ever comes up in my PS1 days. It never hit me that I could have just turned those animations off in game until years later. Stupid me, right? I think Kuja is a very interesting antogonist. Full of zeal and a bit over the top is his demeanor. Did you know that Kuja was originally writ as a female character? But when the decision was made to make him male, his in-game sprite was never changed? Just a factoid I thought I'd share. I never knew how well written the script was until I reached my adulthood, and was able to appreciate it all the more. Especially the "I Want To Be Your Canary" play. And how the play is definitely a theme through out the game

The end of the game is the payoff for playing through it. Whether you invest 12 hours in a game or 120 hours, we play games like this to see the ending. To feel satisfied and substantiated, to find closure in canon. No wonder you have such bitter feelings towards Zidane and co. - 16 Years in and no payoff. Had it ever crossed your mind, OP, to play through the game once on your own, then sometime down the line play through it again, after consulting a guide to see what you missed? Sounds silly, right? Playing through an RPG more than once. All those hours spent...but no more silly than playing through it 3 times and telling yourself it's not engaging enough then quitting. That's the REAL waste of time here. If you, or anyone for that matter, don't have what it takes to manage your equipment and abilities to glide through this game, just say so. Just say you're not good enough to do it on your own. There's no shame in using a guide to enhance your own experience. Hell you might even see some hidden dialogue that just might add that extra depth you're searching for. it's definitely there, I promise you. It's not the game that's lacking depth, you've just convinced yourself it's not there.

TL;DR: IF you spent the same amount of time playing the game as you have ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about it, you might have beaten the game by now.

[Uchinanchu]

You seem to misunderstand me. Allow me to help correct some things you are misunderstanding:

1: I usually never end up 100% games, but I do want to feel satisfaction is obtaining most obtainables in games. For people like me who do not know what is truly missable (because we're not religiously following guides) and what would ultimately be worth completing for in-game benefits, the task of keeping track of Stellazio, moogle mail, findable equips, stealable equips, FF9 cards, chocographs, Quina frogs and other various swag is immediately overwhelming. Honestly, this point has to be indisputable, no?

2: I praised FF9's story so far for what it was, it just isn't believable to me with their cartoonish unrelatable characters. Usually not a problem on my end, but when the game slows down from everything that spawns off the sluggish battles coupled with the above point about missables, it just feels incredibly unrewarding for the time spent.

3: I spent upwards of 200+ hours in my time trying to play this game, which is NOT to say I feel as though I spent a lifetime. This IS saying that a normal casual playthrough of RPG's last 80 hours for me on the slower side, and it just doesn't seem like the time spent is rewarding in this case. To whit, I regularly spend 100's of hours playing games like the RotTK series, Ogre Battle, and the Civ series, so I'm far from a greenhorn when it comes to putting the hard hat on.

4: "Had it ever crossed your mind, OP, to play through the game once on your own, then sometime down the line play through it again, after consulting a guide to see what you missed?"

This is basically what killed the first two runs honestly. To your point, I didn't finish the game before eventually looking at guides and finding out what I missed, but it seemed like I missed over 50% of the "worthwhile finds" everytime I looked. This led to me restarting both times, etc etc.

5: "If you, or anyone for that matter, don't have what it takes to manage your equipment and abilities to glide through this game, just say so."

This is just wrong outright. This has nothing to do with any perceived "inability to manage equipment/abilities and to glide through this game", and I am hardpressed to see exactly where you arrived at this conclusion.

6: "The truth is, I hate gamers like you. People that find reasons not to do something at the expense of the work itself, is just beyond me."

Wow. Assuming a lot here I'd say. The "reason I found" not to play through this game anymore was an erosion of interest, caused by my main three points. This has nothing to do with any perceived "shirking of work" on my part. I actually see a LOT of good in this game, as you'll note above and before if you didn't already. I did forget one thing, as a self-proclaimed audiophile, this game has some amazing music; Steiner's theme immediately comes to mind and always generates a laugh. A great character piece that emphasizes the character without imagery, and actually something I'd queue up on youtube every now and again over the years.

7: I'm just going to ignore any form of profiling above. Even to the extent of what may be true, your musings/conclusions based on said profiling holds no merit

8: "IF you spent the same amount of time playing the game as you have ♥♥♥♥♥ing about it, you might have beaten the game by now."

Completely wrong, spent 200+ hours on FF9... But its not as though you really meant what you literally wrote up there anyways, you were just saying things :)


Thank you for your (relevant) thoughts. I'll make sure to consider strongly the in-game cheats, in addition to my previous stated interest in complete walkthrough support on my fourth go-around in the future.

[Talana 💃]

Originally posted by Shirayuki474:

Lol, misseable content in IX? Try X-2 then. It is not that hard to do 100% excluding Ex2 (because there you need to know perfectly where, when and how.

I swear this is the "trouble" with each and every FF game ever made - The side quests are always important to fully understand the main story, and are Always!!!! missable. So you need a guide ( not a walkthrough ! ) , even if you are a gaming genious.

[Phade]

Originally posted by Shirayuki474:

Lol, misseable content in IX? Try X-2 then. It is not that hard to do 100% excluding Ex2 (because there you need to know perfectly where, when and how.

Agreed. FF9's missable ♥♥♥♥ is at least bareable. Missing ♥♥♥♥ on x-2? Realllly gamebreaking, especially when you can miss a dress sphere such as...DARK KNIGHT.

[IHNN]

Originally posted by SASHIKISONS87:

1: I usually never end up 100% games, but I do want to feel satisfaction is obtaining most obtainables in games. For people like me who do not know what is truly missable (because we're not religiously following guides) and what would ultimately be worth completing for in-game benefits, the task of keeping track of Stellazio, moogle mail, findable equips, stealable equips, FF9 cards, chocographs, Quina frogs and other various swag is immediately overwhelming. Honestly, this point has to be indisputable, no?

Admittedly I'm responding to this from a very knowledgable perspective, having done all the big stuff in the game in one sitting on two separate occasions (and soon to be a third), but I think it is disputable.

Tetra Master seems pretty clear that cards aren't missable, but the Namingway card is only obtainable on Disc 3. However, there are no tangible benefits for completing Tetra Master, so missing that card isn't a big deal at all- though it is a glaring omission in what can still be obtained on Disc 4.
Mognet is clearly an "as you go" sidequest, and there are a couple moogles that need to be detoured for. However, hitting Mognet a few times at every moogle you come across will get 80-90% of the letters no problem, and you only need 50% to be able to start the Mognet Central sidequest once you get a mountain chocobo- not a big deal to miss.
Stellazzio are all unmissable, which is pretty nice. Hard to find in a lot of places, but unmissable.
Chocobo things are all also unmissable, and that covers nearly all of the good findable equipment.
Frogs just keep respawning- check the marsh every so often and you'll hit 99 eventually.
All blue magic spells are obtainable on Disc 4 as well.

So that leaves, really, a few key items and certain pieces of equipment as potential sticking points. Morrid's Coffee sidequest comes to mind here, requiring a visit to Dali when you're dropped in Treno on Disc 3. Buuuuut the benefit is just another key item- nothing more. Stiltzkin's deals can be missed costing a Ribbon, but you get one of those from the story anyway. Moonstones are limited to only 4 (and one of them is called by a Friendly Enemy) but there's still 2 to collect on Disc 4.

Equipment and treasures, then, are the only sticking points. Treasures are easily missable but if you're searching everywhere in every area, you'll find the majority and have plenty of cash to buy a few of everything at each shop.

And that's my only real issue with how missables in FF9 are handled- shop inventories change without warning, and end up making ~30 pieces of equipment no longer obtainable on Disc 4, most notably the contents of the Esto Gaza shop, which can make certain abilities unobtainable! A few items can only be gotten in multiple by stealing from endgame bosses, as well, but again, if you're worried about missing good steals you just equip Bandit and Master Thief and steal from everything.

And of course, none of the above things are required to beat the game. FF9 is designed to require a walkthrough for certain items to be reasonably obtained, but also in such a way so that a diligent casual playthrough will obtain the majority of them: and certainly everything they'd want to find. Would you know about the Excalibur II or the nero family sidequest without walkthroughs? And if not, it'd be impossible to know they were missed!

tl;dr
1. Casual playthrough with no walkthrough works very well
2. Casual playthrough with checking walkthrough to see what was missed won't due to the design of certain aspects
3. Diligently following a walkthrough loses the self-playthrough aspect but hey, you'll get nearly everything
4. Following the E2PG guide will get literally everything, but you have to be dedicated to the game, enjoy speedruns and there's even less freedom to deviate relative to point 3

I know breaking down the sidequests and such by what's missable and what isn't doesn't help with the casual perspective, but hey, it'd free you to play the game without worrying. Likewise, having a treasure list by area and checking off what you get when you get it would make sure you get all the treasures you want- though the Excalibur II would still be lost (it's going to be lost for anyone not speedrunning / boostering through, though.)