FINAL FANTASY IX

FINAL FANTASY IX

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jice Nov 27, 2017 @ 3:26pm
Just beat the game...(spoilers)
1. did I just kill the emobodiment of death itself or even the void itself?????
2. was the ending rushed? I mean there's plenty of story and playtime but there seems to be a lot of loose ends that don't seem to be answered like the merging of worlds or the damn tree loosing it
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Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
matthew Nov 28, 2017 @ 4:27am 
Yeah, I also thought the ending could have been a lot better. I also thought the end boss could have been better explained, afterall it just came out of no where.

I would agree that the ending did feel rushed, and that some parts of the story could have been better.
Escartin Nov 28, 2017 @ 10:42am 
Originally posted by jice:
1. did I just kill the emobodiment of death itself or even the void itself?????
2. was the ending rushed? I mean there's plenty of story and playtime but there seems to be a lot of loose ends that don't seem to be answered like the merging of worlds or the damn tree loosing it

Officialy Necron is the embodiment of death created by Kuja's fear of death..

Why Lifa tree dies? No answer about that, there is no explanation on this. You can find one on your own..

I always thought Necron was the true form of the Lifa tree ( the part which prevent souls returning to the crystal..The spiritual part which Garland talked about in Pandemonium) and I continue to think this..I don't care what Ultimania said.

If you want to know more about this theory read my thread "The Necron theory".
Last edited by Escartin; Nov 28, 2017 @ 10:43am
Escartin Nov 28, 2017 @ 1:22pm 
Originally posted by Dwight:
A humanoid embodiment; sole purpose to return everything to the world of Zero. Delusions elude.
Iifa Tree remains; after violent reaction; flow of souls between Gaia and Terra. For more info on Necron, see the FF wiki or gameFAQ.

According to Ultimania Iifa settles on 16 march 1800. Iifa tree's death was evident in the ending and Ultimania confirmed that.

So...Iifa tree dies but we do not know why and there is no explaination about that. This is sure and evident.

Saying IIfa tree didnt' die is a mistake. Iifa tree dies, and it is evident in the end of the game..More over, Ultimania confirmed that giving us the date of its death too.
Escartin Nov 28, 2017 @ 4:26pm 
Originally posted by Dwight:
So Iifa did die. Good to know. (!) Oh makes sense too now~A.S died too.

What's A.S?

However..Yes..IIfa tree is dead...There isn't discussion about that.

He begins to die after Necron's death and then settles one week later...It' s very similar to evil forest's death.
The evil forest,after killing Plant Brain, startly became mad and then a little later settles...

The same thing is for the IIfa Tree which became mad ( casual?) after Necron death and then settles.

Another evidence which Connect Necron to the Iifa Tree in my opinion.
Last edited by Escartin; Nov 28, 2017 @ 4:32pm
Vladislak Nov 28, 2017 @ 11:57pm 
The worlds were technically partially merged thousands of years before the game begins. Functionally Terra is inside Gaia after the failed assimilation of Gaia by Terra, at this time many structures from Terra ended up on Gaia (like Ipsen's castle, the Desert Palance, and Oeilvert), Gaia also ended up with Terra's moon giving it two.

Anyway, the Iifa tree was transplanted from Terra to Gaia by garland, and the "tree" that you see on Gaia's surface isn't exactly the true tree, it's an extension of the tree. The tree is actually deep underground and holds the planet's crystal. At the time of the game's events the tree's primary purpose is to block the Gaian cycle of souls back to the crystal and let Terran souls flow freely, the idea being that one day Terran souls will simply replace the Gaian souls as a result. Kuja and Zidane were created to cause death and destruction of Gaia to speed up the process.

Much of that is either mentioned briefly or heavily implied in the game.

As for why the Iifa tree went nuts and died, my thinking is that it's tied to what Kuja did to Terra. Like I said Terra is inside Gaia after the failed assimilation, and Kuja wrecked havok and destroyed Terra. I can only imagine that the Iifa tree was seriously wounded and dying. It going nuts may have been it's death throes.
Escartin Nov 29, 2017 @ 1:05am 
Originally posted by Dwight:
Apparatus Sentience; you seem to know everything.

I know what Ultimania said.
Iifa tries died on 16 March 1800. That's not an opinion, is a fact.

And it's a fact that are not explained the reasons of its death.
Escartin Nov 29, 2017 @ 1:19am 
Originally posted by Vladislak:
The worlds were technically partially merged thousands of years before the game begins. Functionally Terra is inside Gaia after the failed assimilation of Gaia by Terra, at this time many structures from Terra ended up on Gaia (like Ipsen's castle, the Desert Palance, and Oeilvert), Gaia also ended up with Terra's moon giving it two.

Anyway, the Iifa tree was transplanted from Terra to Gaia by garland, and the "tree" that you see on Gaia's surface isn't exactly the true tree, it's an extension of the tree. The tree is actually deep underground and holds the planet's crystal. At the time of the game's events the tree's primary purpose is to block the Gaian cycle of souls back to the crystal and let Terran souls flow freely, the idea being that one day Terran souls will simply replace the Gaian souls as a result. Kuja and Zidane were created to cause death and destruction of Gaia to speed up the process.

Much of that is either mentioned briefly or heavily implied in the game.

As for why the Iifa tree went nuts and died, my thinking is that it's tied to what Kuja did to Terra. Like I said Terra is inside Gaia after the failed assimilation, and Kuja wrecked havok and destroyed Terra. I can only imagine that the Iifa tree was seriously wounded and dying. It going nuts may have been it's death throes.


A lot a peaple think that but it is not correct.
Kuja before fighting him clearly says " Even if You Kill me Gaia is doomed. Its assimilation by Terra has begun and the Lifa tree will incite a cataclysmic destruction of Gaia".

So it is not reasonable thinking that Iifa tree died because of Terra destruction. Terra has not been destroyed,just the structures but not the crystal...Kuja tell us that Terra will assimilate Gaia so it's not reasonable thinking that Terra has been destroyed and it is not correct thinking that Iifa tree dies because Kuja destroyed Terra. Iifa Tree started the fusion, we know that, Kuja tell us., and probably the Mist is a sign of the cataclysm Kuja is talking about. What we do not know it's why Iifa tree didn't finish the fusion.
It's evident that something happen after Kuja's battle that stopped and Kill the tree. We do not know what..Surely is not because of Terra destruction. Kuja would have known it.

There are 2 options reasonable.

1) Kuja killed the Iifa tree after his repentance.
2) Necron is connected with the Iifa tree and his death is the cause of Iifa tree's death.

The second options has a lot of evidence during the Game..Starting from Garland's who talks about the spiritual form of the Iifa Tree, arriving to the battle with Necron, in which there are a lot of evidence of its connession with Terra.
Vladislak Nov 29, 2017 @ 1:46am 
Well when I said he destroyed Terra I didn't necessarily mean it's crystal as well. The planet itself was pretty thoroughly wrecked. And it still could have done serious damage to the Iifa tree in the process.

Mikoto even says herself that Kuja destroyed the planet: "You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself... You don't even have a million to one chance of defeating him... You'll all die."

Those other two options you mentioned are of course just as plausible though and I don't mean to discredit them either.
Escartin Nov 29, 2017 @ 5:33am 
Originally posted by Vladislak:
Well when I said he destroyed Terra I didn't necessarily mean it's crystal as well. The planet itself was pretty thoroughly wrecked. And it still could have done serious damage to the Iifa tree in the process.

Mikoto even says herself that Kuja destroyed the planet: "You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself... You don't even have a million to one chance of defeating him... You'll all die."

Those other two options you mentioned are of course just as plausible though and I don't mean to discredit them either.


If Kuja had destroyed Terra he would know it. Kuja says us that Iifa tree will destroy Gaia getting it assimilated by Terra. Kuja just destroyed the surface of Terra and its structures, he destroyed Pandemonium but he didn't destroy Terra's cristal.
Probably Garland's death and Pandemonium destruction are connected to the fact that Iifa tree lost control starting fusion before time....In fact Garland told us time of fusion hasn't still come.

In every case Kuja in Trance mode know everything and can do almost everything and if he says that Gaia is doomed because Terra will assimilate it we have to believe him. Iifa tree did not die because of Terra's destruction, Kuja tell us.

Ther's no explanation about iifa tree's death..We can just suppose something based on certain thing that the Game tell us. One of this certain thing is that Iifa tree did not die cause of Terra destruction because Kuja's worlds discard this hypothesys. What we know is that killing Kuja won't stop Iifa tree and we know that destruction of Terra didn't stop Iifa tree from inciting fusion.
Then, we know, that Iifa tree begins to die after Necron's defeath and dies definitively on 16 March.

If we check Ultimania there is just one hypothesys..Kuja stopped the fusion and kill Iifa tree in some way after his defeat..

If we forget Ultimania and we look at the evidences inside the game and we try to search a logic in the plot it is very probable that Necron is the spiritual part of The Lifa tree which blocks Gaian's soul. The true form of Iifa tree which Garland's was talked about in Pandemonium. Thes hypohesis make logical and consistent the plot of FFIX.
Assuming that Kuja killed us casting Ultima course, allowing to the party's souls to go in the place where Gaian's souls are blocked. ( we can even hear lamentation during the fight with Necron...It's like Hill of despair is the place where Gaian's souls remain blocked).
This give a sense, a real sense, to Necron too...
Last edited by Escartin; Nov 29, 2017 @ 5:34am
Vladislak Nov 29, 2017 @ 10:35am 
Again, I'm not saying Terra's crystal was destroyed, and the crystal is the life of the planet. So Terra could still assimilate Gaia even if the planet was destroyed in the conventional sense. That doesn't conflict with Kuja's words.

It's true that the destruction of Terra didn't stop the Iifa tree from inciting the fusion, but that doesn't mean the Iifa tree couldn't be wounded by Terra's desctruction at the time. In fact it could even be an explanation for why it incited the fusion early rather than waiting for the proper time.

Like you said, there's no direct in-game explanation for the Iifa tree's destruction so we're left to speculate. I don't necessarily subscribe to any one theory about it since we can't know for sure, but I'm not going to dismiss the possibilities either.
Escartin Nov 29, 2017 @ 11:16am 
Originally posted by Vladislak:
Again, I'm not saying Terra's crystal was destroyed, and the crystal is the life of the planet. So Terra could still assimilate Gaia even if the planet was destroyed in the conventional sense. That doesn't conflict with Kuja's words.

It's true that the destruction of Terra didn't stop the Iifa tree from inciting the fusion, but that doesn't mean the Iifa tree couldn't be wounded by Terra's desctruction at the time. In fact it could even be an explanation for why it incited the fusion early rather than waiting for the proper time.

Like you said, there's no direct in-game explanation for the Iifa tree's destruction so we're left to speculate. I don't necessarily subscribe to any one theory about it since we can't know for sure, but I'm not going to dismiss the possibilities either.


You are however in wrong because Kuja would have known that the tree of IIfa would die. Terra's destruction happened 11 days before the fight against Kuja. If the Tree was dying Kuja would know it. 11 days passes and what Kuja tell us is that Iifa tree is causing a cataclysm and that Gaia will be assimilated by Terra. Kuja knows what's happening, we do not know...Kuja know, we don't know. So we have to assume that in the moment we're fighting Kuja the destiny of Gaia has signed.

It's evident that something changed the destiny of Gaia AFTER the battle against Kuja...TERRA'S DESTRUCTION HAPPENED 11 DAYS BEFORE and it's not possibile that an event of 11 days before was the cause of Tree's death...Kuja would have known it.

More often..It' ridicolous to think that the cause of Iifa tree's death is the destruction of Terra which happened 11 days before...After 11 days, casually, Iifa Tree begins to die just after Necron and Kuja's defeath...All casual..

No...There is one thing sure about Iifa tree's death..And it is that something after Kuja's battle cause the death of Lifa Tree. Terra's destruction is an event of 11 days before.


PS: Unless we think that Kuja was in mistake...But this is unlikely, more often, I would say impossibile..In the moment we're fighting Kuja Iifa Tree is still alive and perfectly works. If Iifa Tree destiny was to die after Terra's destruction Kuja would have known it.
Vladislak Nov 29, 2017 @ 12:53pm 
Actually the Iifa tree was clearly affected around the time Terra was destroyed, it chose that time to spew mist all throughout Gaia. Granted the party thinks Kuja did something in the Iifa tree to cause the mist when they first see it, but the party was speculating at that point and had no evidence beyond the fact that the Mist suddenly reappeared, they had no knowledge of what was going to happen with the Iifa tree.

And while Kuja knew a lot, he was far from omniscient. He may not have known all the details. It's also equally plausible that he knew the Iifa tree was wounded but that it wouldn't change the fact that Terra would assimilate Gaia before then anyways. So he wouldn't have to be mistaken for the Iifa tree to have been wounded. It could still cause havok regardless in the time it had left.

And 11 days seems pretty plausible to me actually, just because something is wounded doesn't mean it has to die immediately, the Iifa tree was huge after all, stretching deep down into the planet.
Escartin Nov 30, 2017 @ 4:02am 
Originally posted by Vladislak:
Actually the Iifa tree was clearly affected around the time Terra was destroyed, it chose that time to spew mist all throughout Gaia. Granted the party thinks Kuja did something in the Iifa tree to cause the mist when they first see it, but the party was speculating at that point and had no evidence beyond the fact that the Mist suddenly reappeared, they had no knowledge of what was going to happen with the Iifa tree.

And while Kuja knew a lot, he was far from omniscient. He may not have known all the details. It's also equally plausible that he knew the Iifa tree was wounded but that it wouldn't change the fact that Terra would assimilate Gaia before then anyways. So he wouldn't have to be mistaken for the Iifa tree to have been wounded. It could still cause havok regardless in the time it had left.

And 11 days seems pretty plausible to me actually, just because something is wounded doesn't mean it has to die immediately, the Iifa tree was huge after all, stretching deep down into the planet.

11 days and Iifa tree begins to die, casually,immediatly after Kuja's defeat and Necron's death.
Memoria disappears immediatly after Necron's defeath, Iifa Tree begins to die immediatly after Necron's defeath and the cause of Iifa Tree's death would be an event of 11 days before? We can suppose everything, but this is very very hard to believe, I would say impossible to believe.
It is not believable just considering this, and it became less credible considering the worlds of Kuja...

2 evidents which proves that Iifa's tree death has no connection with Kuja's action on Terra. Both the worlds of Kuja and the fact that Iifa Tree's begins to die immediatly after the fight against Kuja and Necron..

1) If the Iifa Tree's death is caused by Terra distruction is at least strange that it begins to die casually, just after the fights against Necron and Kuja. It is not believable.

2) More often..Kuja before fighting him tell us that Iifa Tree wont' die, on the contrary, it will finish the fusion.


In conclusion. To believe this incredible theory we have to assume that Kuja was in mistake ( just this is very hard to think) and that the cause of Iifa tree's death is an event of 11 days ago considering totally casual that Memoria disappear and Iifa tree begins to die just after Necron's and Kuja's defeath.
It's not credible as theory...

I think it is much more credible and logical thinking that both Memoria disappearing and Iifa tree's death are related to Kuja's repentance or to Necron's death.

I think this is sure...I always liked thinking that Necron was connected to the IIfa tree but Ultimania denied it.
If we discard this hipothesis we have to think that it's all Kuja's work..He opened Memoria, and after his repentance he closed it, and then, in some way, he stopped Iifa tree.

Last edited by Escartin; Nov 30, 2017 @ 4:57am
Vladislak Nov 30, 2017 @ 2:26pm 
Kuja doesn't say the Iifa tree won't die though, ever. He just says the assimilation will happen. It's entirely plausible that a dying Iifa tree could incite the fusion and then pass away afterwards.

As for the timing, yeah it's a big coincidence, but it's not implausible. JRPG's often have this sort of timing coincidence, with the party finishing things "just in time" before things hit the fan in order to cause a big climax. It's not terribly realistic, but it's quite common.

And even if you don't want to accept that, it's possible it was dying due to Terra's destruction and Kuja's actions at the end were a catalyst that hurried it along, there's no real way of knowing.
Escartin Dec 4, 2017 @ 5:19am 
Originally posted by Vladislak:
Kuja doesn't say the Iifa tree won't die though, ever. He just says the assimilation will happen. It's entirely plausible that a dying Iifa tree could incite the fusion and then pass away afterwards.

As for the timing, yeah it's a big coincidence, but it's not implausible. JRPG's often have this sort of timing coincidence, with the party finishing things "just in time" before things hit the fan in order to cause a big climax. It's not terribly realistic, but it's quite common.

And even if you don't want to accept that, it's possible it was dying due to Terra's destruction and Kuja's actions at the end were a catalyst that hurried it along, there's no real way of knowing.

Well...Kuja Tell us IIfa Tree will incite a Cataclysm which will destroy Gaia and that Gaia will be assimilated by Terra...What we see,indeed, is the IIfa Tree dead ( officialy confirmed by Ultimania) without inciting any Cataclysm..Iifa Tree dies and Fusion is not completed. This is what the game tell us...The game tell us Iifa Tree is dead and this fact has stopped the fusion...The game tell us that IIfa Tree would have destroyed Gaia but it didn't do it because is dead...What we do not know is why is dead...But we know, clearly, that without Iifa Tree's death Gaia would be assimilated by Terra..The game tell us...Not me..The game tell us.
I do not believe anything, on the contrary, you' re searching to get logic to a theory with any kind of logic.

Terra' s destruction have nothing to do with Iifa Tree's death both for Kuja's worlds and it is ridicolous to think that Memoria gate closed, Iifa Tree's death immediatly after Kuja' s defeath are caused by an event of 11 days before. It's evident and clear, because the Game told us, that when we're fighting Kuja Iifa Tree is inciting the fusion, and it is evident and clear that something stopped the fusion AFTER THE BATTLE WITH KUJA.

I' m trying to search logic in the end of FFIX...The theory for wich Iifa Tree's death is caused by Terra's destruction isn't logic..If the authors chosed to make Kuja say those worlds there is a reason. ..There was no need for the authors to make Kuja say those worlds, if they chose to make Kuja say that it's because the authors wanted tell us that Iifa Tree was alive and the fusion will be completed even killing Kuja...
Then IIfa Tree dies and we do not know why and they never wanted explain it, neither in Ultimania...To make clear the thing would have been sufficient to not make say those worlds to Kuja..Everyone would have connected Iifa Tree's death with Terra' s destruction..
Authors with those worlds of Kuja are telling us " Find on your own the cause of IIfa Tree's death..Surely it is not Terra's destruction".

You have to make yourself 3 question

1) Why Authors decided to make Kuja say those worlds?
2) Why authors never tell us the true cause of IIfa Tree's death? Neither in Ultimania?
3) Why Authors confirmed without any kind of doubt that Iifa Tree is dead in Ultimania?
4) Why the explanation of Necron in Ultimania is totally ridicolous and in contraddiction with the game?

I answer

1) They're saying us that Iifa Tree is alive and will destroy Gaia. So we're doomed even Killing Kuja. They're saying us that something happened after Kuja's battle changed the events.

2) Because they wanted never say clearly what Necron is...Because the central meaning of Necron is the fear of Death, central theme of the game..A player, more then on the plot, must concentrate on the meaning of the game. Revealing true identity of Necron would have ruined, in their prospective, the true meaning of this final boss.

3) They wanted to deny the theory that the Iifa Tree would still be alive. They're saying is that Iifa Tree is dead and they will never tell us why..."If you want to understand the game, follow it well..We explained you all, if you understood the game..There is no needing to say..It is evident...The eyes behing Necron is an evidence with no reason to be explained..We told you, if you don't want to understand it's not our problem."

4) They had to write something, but indeed they didn't write nothing...Reading Ultimania Necron would be a creation by Kuja's fear of death...If we look at the dialogue with Necron this explanation is so ridicolous..Necron make us understand that he exists from thousands of Years..Ultimania is telling us that Necron is a newbord...Totally ridicolous..
The umpteenth confirmation that what is really Necron do not want to tell us as they won't never tell us why Iifa Tree is death.

The answers at these question are in the game, if the player is careful enough to catch them.
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Date Posted: Nov 27, 2017 @ 3:26pm
Posts: 29