Opinion on Spoilers/Guides/Hints?

[BippityZebob boo]

What do you feel is the right level of outside resources to use for this game?

So far I'm up to year 41/36 and have looked up hints a few times when looking for optimization solutions, but it always feels like cheating in the end. It's either a concept that feels hacky (add after a sub instead of a copy, loop unrolling when its impossible to meet both requirements in 1 stage), or something I don't think I would've figured out on my own from the hints in the game. The hint about counting backward on stage 35 for example. Sometimes even just looking up a level and seeing the length/speed of the best solutions is enough.

Also I find it much easier to write/read the code from this game in notepad++ since having 4 jumps all pointing to the same place is hard to read, writing comments with a mouse is painful, and you can only fit about 14 lines of code on 1 page ingame.

Also the linked guide on the tomorrowcorp page (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=544552832) doesn't seem to exist.

For reference I've taken 1 intro to CS class but it was 90% java/matlab. I'll probably be able to write up a sloppy bubble sort at minimum, maybe a selection sort, but i'm not sure how someone with no programming background would figure that out. 36 I can probably figure out but I'll have to map it out since larger codes in this game are very hard to visualize to me with the ingame formatting.

Anyway I guess I just want to hear how you guys feel about the right level of "look up pre-existing codes/concepts" vs "figure it out on your own."

[malogoss]

For me the right amount was to never look at any outside solutions or ideas. Some floors had me staring at the screen for a couple hours. My programming background is something like 3 courses, 2 being C++, that I went through some 25 years ago. No real programming experience except for a few programming games, many of which I never bothered finishing. (Edit: I should say in many cases, did not finish because skill issues)

I hope you are using the copy paste feature to import/export to notepad.

I felt that the minimal steps solutions added nothing of value to the game. Once you find the minimal commands solution, or even just any solution at all, often the step challenge is trivial and only boring to code. But overall that means what, that I felt like wasting my time for 10-15 minutes spent unrolling some code? Not too bad considering I spent near 30 hours to beat the whole game.

If the minimal commands solutions sometimes feel hacky to you, my advice is to first solve the floor in whatever way, then look at your code. Question the use and emplacement of every command that is duplicated. Question the way you arrange the jump commands. Remember that "bump" does 2 things at once, for example. Look for sections of code where the order between lines does not matter and imagine what would happen if they were in another order, would it open new possibilities?

Whatever happens, I'd never look for the challenges solutions and say "floor done". If I ever got stuck for 10 hours on a floor that is not a dead end, thus blocking my access to some game content, I suppose I would have opened a guide, copy pasted the solution for that floor, let it run once and then delete the solution. All while trying to not look at the code at all. Come back and redo that floor later if feeling like it.

That's it. I can generally be patient and I'd say that sometimes, I do think a bit like a programmer would, even if I'm not one. So that would explain a lot. But in the end if you get more enjoyment out of the game by copy pasting the solutions of 3-4 floors, then what? It's certainly better than banging your head on a wall for 20 hours without results.

[BippityZebob boo]

>Question the use and emplacement of every command that is duplicated.
Right. For example in floor 39 I saved a single line of code and 4 steps by not initializing a variable and using an add function instead of a copyfrom.
I'm not familiar enough with assembly to know if this is a skill with real world applications, but in my head it feels more "proper" to output from a stored variable rather than tossing the output from a bump or an add mid loop.

Also yeah the copy/paste to notepad is a lifesaver, and I've only looked up full solutions once I've already beat both challenges to see if there was a better way.

[Darkwood]

One of the concepts in programming is not to reinvent the wheel. When writing programs, people often at times borrow existing code that has been written by someone else, and it is cited in the source code in the comments. So from a programming perspective you looking up information, and citing examples of code, to help you derive your own routines and algorithms, to recursively iterate through what your "manager" wants sorted, calculated, etc. isn't really that big of a deal.

Why sit there wracking your brain when someone else before you has already done it? If everyone literally reinvented their version of everything - which isn't so far removed from the truth, as how many different kinds of chairs are there in the world, and how many of the same kind do we really need (it's like a memory leak of redundancy) - it would take forever to accomplish anything. There is no guilt. Seeing examples, and utilizing existing code, helps you begin thinking and seeing the process which furthers your skills and abilities, that you can begin seeing and writing the necessary code to accomplish your tasks.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Keep the faith.