is AI cheating...??

[talent_fRy]

i wonder, because when using skills like long pass or slide tackle and so on it pretty much NEVER fails. while my players have like max 50% chance of being successful( lvl2 skills and not tired). even almost completey tired AI-Players always win with their skills and particularly slide tackle. And before someone asks, yes it also happens withs lvl 1 skills.
Would be nice to get an answer from the devs.

Btw another question regarding the possible infinite use of rainbow feint. I don't think that it was intended by the devs, but prove me wrong :D :D :D
For me, i would suggest to max it on 2 or 3 uses in a row. But that's only my irrelevant opinion :)

Sorry for bad english, not my native language

[DanielHall15]

I do not think that the AI cheats with their dice rolls when using skills.

I suspect though that the energy recovery rules for the AI between games may be slightly tweaked in their favor. When I see how the AI sometimes indeed uses Rainbow Feint on their Nigerian attacker until he's completely white in the face and his energy bar has only the slightest sliver of red left, I do indeed fail to comprehend how the guy came into the game fully rested, because when I completely exhaust a player he'll at best have about 50-60% energy to start the next game.

I really, really, really wish I could play the same team back-to-back in short order, like league and cup in the same week, for such a player, to see how much energy he recovers compared to my CM with Slide Tackle 3 who hasn't felt his own heartbeat in years as I abuse him so badly.

[Kolakhan]

I wonder myself about AI corner kicks. Without fail they seem to find the guy with only one defender on him but I have to make my choice not knowing what they did to me???

[_K_o_S_]

Why does AI should cheat? What is the reason? Football Tactics is not an f2p game where developers make players pay for winning.

We simulate football world. Sometimes you are luckier than AI, sometimes AI is luckier.

I know that the theme of an RNG is painful. Every game with RNG is accused of "cheating AI". Same for XCOM, same for Civ series (at least, before Civ 4). Usually, players better remember when AI has better luck but forget the situations when they were luckier. Because when they are luckier, players think that it's fare.

So the answer from the developer - we do not manipulate RNG in any way. It just works equally for all. We want the players to feel how in real football the results of the matches consist of the tactics + power of the teams + luck.

If you want the outcomes are more predictable, start a new campaign with the option "Fewer random actions"

- - - - - - - -

@DanielHall15

There is no tweaking in someone's favor. The recovery and some other mechanics are part of the simulation. However, as there is a lot of data and a lot of calculation, we simplify some things for AI teams. So sometimes they can recover a bit more stamina than they should have. Not every time, but sometimes it might happen because of the nature of the simulation.

- - - - - - - -

@Kolakhan

Sorry, didn't understand the problem. AI sees the same situation as you. It is just better in understanding the probabilities. You always see what players are covered by what opponents.

[talent_fRy]

Originally posted by _K_o_S_:

Why does AI should cheat? What is the reason? Football Tactics is not an f2p game where developers make players pay for winning.

We simulate football world. Sometimes you are luckier than AI, sometimes AI is luckier.

I know that the theme of an RNG is painful. Every game with RNG is accused of "cheating AI". Same for XCOM, same for Civ series (at least, before Civ 4). Usually, players better remember when AI has better luck but forget the situations when they were luckier. Because when they are luckier, players think that it's fare.

So the answer from the developer - we do not manipulate RNG in any way. It just works equally for all. We want the players to feel how in real football the results of the matches consist of the tactics + power of the teams + luck.

If you want the outcomes are more predictable, start a new campaign with the option "Fewer random actions"

At first, thank you for the quick answer. But as you ask, one reason that comes to my mind is that the AI isn't strong enough without the advantage in RNG to keep being challenging. For example yesterday i won a match 8:2 with a 2.5*team against a 4*team while scoring 7 goals on the exact same way(cross+header). And that only because the AI kept playing the same strategy on and on after kick off and always losing the ball to the same defender.
I hope i don't sound too offensive.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1202565742

I mean i love this game, i like the idea of RNG for more realism. But what i don't like is feeling cheated by the game, when it comes to the AI's use of the specials skills. It just looks like the RNG works only one way in these particular situations.

the longer i play the game the more i assume that the AI has at least <LessRNG> always activated or the odds for its skills dice rolls are better.
I can't count how many matches i played, where the AI had ONLY ONE player with slide tackle lvl1 and won 10/10 or 9/10 duells throughout the whole match, running long distances all over the field and still won its dice rolls even completely tired. Same for its long pass through more than one opponent player.

Hope you don't feel too offended by my posts and will still answer my questions.
Question about infinite use of rainbow feint....if you know what i mean :):)

[Steel Rat]

Hope you don't feel too offended by my posts and will still answer my questions.
Question about infinite use of rainbow feint....if you know what i mean :):)

When it comes to Rainbow, it annoys the hell out of me too, especially if you have no DF's/GK with Reaction skill. But player will tire and eventually his chance to succeed will drop dramatically :)

[yoman38]

Never felt cheated by AI. I'm maybe very lucky; but I strongly disagree.

[_K_o_S_]

There are many ways to make AI more challenging. We can make them shoot on goals and score without regard to the probabilities. We can not give you win 4* team with your 2* team. But we do because we want players to win because of how they built their teams and how they built their tactics.

We are making this game in the way it is fun to play ourselves. We wouldn't play it if we know AI cheats.

I know that peoples' perception is skewed to see that opponents have better randoms. That's how our brain works. For example, I watch long lets play of Football Tactics on Youtube, and see that a youtuber is blaming RNG when he fails but rarely notices that his low probability actions were successful.

Regarding Rainbow Feint. There are many ways to counter the opponent with Rainbow feint. So there is no sense to decrease its amount of use. Any skill, if used smartly, is very powerful. That's fine. Because any skill can be countered.

[talent_fRy]

Again, thank you for the quick answer.

About rainbow feint i am not sure now, if it became clear what i meant by infinite use.
It's not that I'm annoyed that it is difficult to counter. what i meant is that a few times there was the situation where the AI had one action left and 4-5 of my players in front of it. The AI just rainbowfeints into my goal by the bonus action after succesful use or at least tried. All i want to know here is, if it was intended by you(devs) to have the opportunity to use it so many times in a row without losing action? Because actually it's the only skill that has that kind of possibility. I wonder if it doesn't make rainbow feint a little overpowered. My suggestion wasn't to max rainbow feint uses for the whole match, but for the infinite uses in a row without losing actions.

[_K_o_S_]

It was intended. It 's like a top class technical footballer who dribbled through all defense and scored a goal. If it's overpowered, it would be used by everyone, but it's not. Because there are different formations and different classes who counter the usage of this skill.

Sure, if I see that it becomes an official exploit, we would nerf it. We already did it recently. Before the Update 10 which was released in October, it was a very powerful skill. Now, it depends on the opponent and match situation.

[dk]

Originally posted by _K_o_S_:

I know that peoples' perception is skewed to see that opponents have better randoms. That's how our brain works.

The problem is - there are also several ways to generate random numbers. And there are always bugs or exploits. Sometimes when you get really strange results in the same sutuations or 10 games one by one all you can do is to say "what the *** is going on". And "Thats how our brain works" - is not an answer.
I'm playing with "Fewer random actions" and still a lot of strange\interesting\0,01%\unbelievable results.

The best way - add option "Create match logs" option to stop that crying and to help developers investigate the problems.

Log contains teams and dice rolls information.

Like:
date, Team 1 (home) vs Team 2 (visitors)
1st turn - 110\120 (home) - 50\92 (visitors) - Pass
2nd turn - 9\10 (home) - 5\10 (visitors) - Cannon Shot
etc
And thats all - everyone get facts and arguments.

[DanielHall15]

To clarify, I didn't say the AI cheats; I said it doesn't play to 100% the same rules.

It's like - off the top of my head - a rule adaption in Civilization V for the AI; if the player civ has no money and a income per turn of -5 or worse, one of their units might be disbanded to reduce upkeep. The same is not true for the AI. They can happily have no money and run -100 or more per turn without ever losing units. The AI is not trained to handle the balance between how many units it can have without running itself broke, and this game's AI and its sometimes excessive skill use is similar to that.

[_K_o_S_]

Originally posted by dk:

Originally posted by _K_o_S_:

I know that peoples' perception is skewed to see that opponents have better randoms. That's how our brain works.

The problem is - there are also several ways to generate random numbers. And there are always bugs or exploits. Sometimes when you get really strange results in the same sutuations or 10 games one by one all you can do is to say "what the *** is going on". And "Thats how our brain works" - is not an answer.
I'm playing with "Fewer random actions" and still a lot of strange\interesting\0,01%\unbelievable results.

The best way - add option "Create match logs" option to stop that crying and to help developers investigate the problems.

Log contains teams and dice rolls information.

Like:
date, Team 1 (home) vs Team 2 (visitors)
1st turn - 110\120 (home) - 50\92 (visitors) - Pass
2nd turn - 9\10 (home) - 5\10 (visitors) - Cannon Shot
etc
And thats all - everyone get facts and arguments.

We have these logs when someone sends us report files with bugs.

Watch a lets play and write down any number you see for the 10 consecutive matches. Without the emotional connection to the results, you will see that the player can be as lucky as AI.

I don't live in the box from which I don't see the game. I play it myself, I watch every possible lets play, every possible stream on any language to see if there are any problems I might not know in our game. It's very visible when a player with the strong emotional connection to the results, doesn't see how AI with high accuracy rolled "one" few times in a row. But every player clearly remembers its own "ones".

[_K_o_S_]

Originally posted by DanielHall15:

To clarify, I didn't say the AI cheats; I said it doesn't play to 100% the same rules.

It's like - off the top of my head - a rule adaption in Civilization V for the AI; if the player civ has no money and a income per turn of -5 or worse, one of their units might be disbanded to reduce upkeep. The same is not true for the AI. They can happily have no money and run -100 or more per turn without ever losing units. The AI is not trained to handle the balance between how many units it can have without running itself broke, and this game's AI and its sometimes excessive skill use is similar to that.

Sure, I understand. The example with Civ 5 very accurately fits our game. However, currently, we are working on making the simulation go deeper and take to account finances and contracts.

[DanielHall15]

Originally posted by _K_o_S_:

Originally posted by DanielHall15:

To clarify, I didn't say the AI cheats; I said it doesn't play to 100% the same rules.

It's like - off the top of my head - a rule adaption in Civilization V for the AI; if the player civ has no money and a income per turn of -5 or worse, one of their units might be disbanded to reduce upkeep. The same is not true for the AI. They can happily have no money and run -100 or more per turn without ever losing units. The AI is not trained to handle the balance between how many units it can have without running itself broke, and this game's AI and its sometimes excessive skill use is similar to that.

Sure, I understand. The example with Civ 5 very accurately fits our game. However, currently, we are working on making the simulation go deeper and take to account finances and contracts.

I can't wait for that :D