Demon's Fist or Demon's Greataxe?

[Mister Musashi]

I've been pretty hyped about getting the Demon's Fist the moment I killed the thing with the soul for it, but... I'm not hearing the greatest things about it. Power-stanced normal +10 Caestae were possibly my best PvP weapons in DS2:SotFS, and I never got to even obtain the Bone Fist... (that snowy-ass place broke me). I was hoping this would be their equivalent, but it's just the Caestus with a different battle art. I am super into the flaming double lariat into flame pillar slam, though. I mean, my (current) Steam avatar is Yang from RWBY - I feel almost obligated. To be honest, for a somewhat faster weapon than what I currently use, I'd rather figure out which katana is best (my previous avatar was Samurai Jack, yo; been meaning to change it), but that also seems like a nightmare... I never signed up for Calculator Souls.

Meanwhile, my current main weapon is a normal +5 Greatsword (my love for it is like a truck) coupled with the flame enchantment pyromancy, which I use for everything, with 28 STR and 24 DEX so far. I also use it with Iron Flesh and I just power my way through hits - PvE and PvP. The Demon's Greataxe seems to be right up my alley. From what I can tell, the flaming nuke of a battle art has incredible super armor, and its damage is really high. It's moveset looks like literally only forward vertical ground slams for every single move, though, and I don't meet the INT/FTH req. for it yet (10 INT/FTH can only get you so far, I guess).

TL;DR I heard the Fist has ♥♥♥♥ damage and the battle art is cool though not the strongest, but I would like a fist weapon and it looks rad to use; the Greataxe seems super strong and fits my hit-tanking, heavy-hitting playstyle , but super limited (and I'd need 4 levels to use it) - what do?

(I suppose it'd be a bit much to ask anyone for one of theirs if they got one and thought it was ♥♥♥♥, eh? )

[Mister Musashi]

Eh? Anyone? Got nothin'?
(Also, I'll have use of the Pontiff's Right Eye ring + Carthus Beacon pyromancy that should super boost the damage of the Demon's Fist - and I can properly wield the Greataxe if I were to get it.)

[Oorslavich]

I don't know. I got the fist and its decent. Didn't think of using the pontiff's rings though. Will try that and get back to you. It is composite damage though, which means it has pathetically weak damage against players.

[Mister Musashi]

Originally posted by Oorslavich:

I don't know. I got the fist and its decent. Didn't think of using the pontiff's rings though. Will try that and get back to you. It is composite damage though, which means it has pathetically weak damage against players.

Well, I got the Demon's Greataxe. I'm not very pleased with it (although I haven't upgraded it). It's very VERY limited moveset (seriously, it's literally only the ONE attack) is super not great for PvE against any more than one enemy, maybe two if they're close together. My testing ground was the group just outside the Cleansing Chapel of the Cathedral of the Deep. Trying to clear that group of four basic guys praying at that thing got me nearly killed (I never knew how tough they were since I've always one-shot them with a rolling two-handed Greatsword swing). The ground slam AoE battle art would kill all but the one with the shield. However, the range on that AoE seems to be smaller than it looks... I was using it a bit outside Firelink and that one hollow standing alone facing off the cliff... I kept missing him with that AoE in a range I'm pretty sure the Greatsword would've hit him clean and square.

I can also say I'm incredibly disappointed that the Pontiff's Right Eye + Carthus Beacon do NOT work how I'd hoped with this thing. The hits from the AoE do NOT count as hits with the weapon - killing the 1 wandering and 1 lone guy outside the chapel and then using the AoE on the 4 praying guys did not grant even one stack of the buff. Regular melee attacks did, though nearly got me killed since it couldn't kill the 4 fast enough so they started attacking/exploding.

Meanwhile, testing with the +5 (or was it 6?) Greatsword using the Pontiff's Right Eye + Carthus Beacon combined with the Flame Clutch Ring + Carthus Flame Arc pyromancy weapon buff and Lloyd's Sword Ring, I was able to raise my damage from 406 to over 614 or something with the PRE+CB at maximum stacks (had to fight some of those puking zombie jerks to get there), albeit briefly. Ugh. I have no use for this Greataxe. Maybe it'll be worth something if I upgrade it but I don't want to do that just yet.

I really should've gotten the Demon's Fist. I need to find a way to get one without having to wait for NG+ (I feel like at that point they wouldn't be worth much, either; even if the damage is mixed, it's still twice as strong as an un-upgraded Caestus). I want to try those combos with that battle art (I'm imagining the spinning hits will count for the buff since you're still hitting with the weapon, but maybe not the slam part); I also want to try the spin with the Knight Slayer's Ring on guarding enemies/players to see if it can guard break effectively. I heard it's easy to get hit out of the spin animation, though, but that should work fine with Iron Flesh.

[Shinobi]

Originally posted by Mister Musashi:

Originally posted by Oorslavich:

I don't know. I got the fist and its decent. Didn't think of using the pontiff's rings though. Will try that and get back to you. It is composite damage though, which means it has pathetically weak damage against players.

Well, I got the Demon's Greataxe. I'm not very pleased with it (although I haven't upgraded it). It's very VERY limited moveset (seriously, it's literally only the ONE attack) is super not great for PvE against any more than one enemy, maybe two if they're close together. My testing ground was the group just outside the Cleansing Chapel of the Cathedral of the Deep. Trying to clear that group of four basic guys praying at that thing got me nearly killed (I never knew how tough they were since I've always one-shot them with a rolling two-handed Greatsword swing). The ground slam AoE battle art would kill all but the one with the shield. However, the range on that AoE seems to be smaller than it looks... I was using it a bit outside Firelink and that one hollow standing alone facing off the cliff... I kept missing him with that AoE in a range I'm pretty sure the Greatsword would've hit him clean and square.

I can also say I'm incredibly disappointed that the Pontiff's Right Eye + Carthus Beacon do NOT work how I'd hoped with this thing. The hits from the AoE do NOT count as hits with the weapon - killing the 1 wandering and 1 lone guy outside the chapel and then using the AoE on the 4 praying guys did not grant even one stack of the buff. Regular melee attacks did, though nearly got me killed since it couldn't kill the 4 fast enough so they started attacking/exploding.

Meanwhile, testing with the +5 (or was it 6?) Greatsword using the Pontiff's Right Eye + Carthus Beacon combined with the Flame Clutch Ring + Carthus Flame Arc pyromancy weapon buff and Lloyd's Sword Ring, I was able to raise my damage from 406 to over 614 or something with the PRE+CB at maximum stacks (had to fight some of those puking zombie jerks to get there), albeit briefly. Ugh. I have no use for this Greataxe. Maybe it'll be worth something if I upgrade it but I don't want to do that just yet.

I really should've gotten the Demon's Fist. I need to find a way to get one without having to wait for NG+ (I feel like at that point they wouldn't be worth much, either; even if the damage is mixed, it's still twice as strong as an un-upgraded Caestus). I want to try those combos with that battle art (I'm imagining the spinning hits will count for the buff since you're still hitting with the weapon, but maybe not the slam part); I also want to try the spin with the Knight Slayer's Ring on guarding enemies/players to see if it can guard break effectively. I heard it's easy to get hit out of the spin animation, though, but that should work fine with Iron Flesh.

You kidding dude? The Demon's Greataxe has a whole bunch of moves, including a skill which is a very powerful AoE.

Don't know what you're testing on but I'm guessing a few of your buttons are missing since you didn't know this.

[Mister Musashi]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

You kidding dude? The Demon's Greataxe has a whole bunch of moves, including a skill which is a very powerful AoE.

Don't know what you're testing on but I'm guessing a few of your buttons are missing since you didn't know this.

You kidding dude? Every attack is basically the same short range vertical ground slam only reskinned with a different visual animation, the same case as almost all greataxes in this game (and my memory is fuzzy now, there was probably a different move in there somewhere, but I do do a 100% moveset test with new weapons before even using them in combat).

And I don't know what post you're reading but I'm guessing a few of your brain cells are missing (I'm sorry, I actually didn't mean that, I'm just mimicking the wording of your comment and that was all I could think of) since you didn't see I talked all about the AoE (and how it underperformed in damage, range, and speed, as well as mechanically not functioning with damage-boosting strategies utilizing the AoE, with weaker physical and fire damage compared to the Greatsword with Carthus Flame Arc).

Originally posted by Mister Musashi:

The ground slam AoE battle art would kill all but the one with the shield. However, the range on that AoE seems to be smaller than it looks... I was using it a bit outside Firelink and that one hollow standing alone facing off the cliff... I kept missing him with that AoE in a range I'm pretty sure the Greatsword would've hit him clean and square.

I can also say I'm incredibly disappointed that the Pontiff's Right Eye + Carthus Beacon do NOT work how I'd hoped with this thing. The hits from the AoE do NOT count as hits with the weapon - killing the 1 wandering and 1 lone guy outside the chapel and then using the AoE on the 4 praying guys did not grant even one stack of the buff. Regular melee attacks did, though nearly got me killed since it couldn't kill the 4 fast enough so they started attacking/exploding.

Additionally, I'd have to redo testing for numbers, but I feel like I had more success with the Gargoyle Flame Spear and its AoE, even in PvP.

[Tyoka]

It's unfortunate you never got the Bone Fist, it was pretty fun. I kept it in my offhand while using a MLGS just so I could do flying jump kicks. It didn't do much damage, but it was hilarious to land in pvp.

The Demon's Fist sorely disappointed me. I was really hoping for a tatsumaki this time around, like the one the mimic uses. I guess the flame spin is kind of like a tatsu with your arms instead of a leg, but man, we need at least ONE proper kick attack in the game.

[Mister Musashi]

Originally posted by Tyoka:

It's unfortunate you never got the Bone Fist, it was pretty fun. I kept it in my offhand while using a MLGS just so I could do flying jump kicks. It didn't do much damage, but it was hilarious to land in pvp.

The Demon's Fist sorely disappointed me. I was really hoping for a tatsumaki this time around, like the one the mimic uses. I guess the flame spin is kind of like a tatsu with your arms instead of a leg, but man, we need at least ONE proper kick attack in the game.

Yeah, man, I mean - the Mimic can kick, Gundyr can kick... why can't we? And at least we can pretend the Demon Fist is like some super duper EX Double Lariat spin.