My Sorcerer build. SL 120 PVP/PVE combined. Not a pro, but I'll still one-shot most of you.

[Analyst]

Alright, ladies and gentlemen! I figured I'd make this thread, because nobody has really done it. Everyone usually just asks one question about the INT class, and nothing else, and you're sent running around from thread to thread, and most of them are older souls games.

This is essentially my build converted from a Deprived class that I used to melee on via Rosaria's attribute allocation covenant option. That being said you can opt into another class, but I think this one works out best since it has the lowest level and the less points wasted. Other classes have points where you'll have more of something than you need. Like more strength and/or dex than we want to have.

This class is hard enough to make, so we don't want to go wasting points. I'll start with the stats, explaining them the best I can in as simple of a way as I can manage, and I'll add some unneeded detail for those who are playing a Souls game for the first time. Then I'll explain the spells/weps/armor. Feel free to tweak the build, but after extensive testing and tweaking, this was my final build which came down to strict necessity due to the fact we can't use the stat-boosting rings most other classes use. Ours are all strictly sorc-relevant.

Continued in following post because of post size limit.

[Analyst]

39 Vigor.------ Now, I played with this stat alot. Originally, it was the bare minimum of 27 which gives you 1000 HP without being embered as host. The issue was that because of our low stat points in things that usually build up physical defense, I got hit like a semi-truck. From 100% to 25% in one sword swing. I realized it was waaaaaay too low and needed to be bumped. 39 gives us 1200 without being embered.

It is an important stat. Yes, you should be evading and not getting hit, but sometimes you do and sometimes you need to trade hits for the kill. (Trading is when you hit a player/enemy the same time they hit you, and it's only worth it if you do more damage or if you kill, and with this build, you will! Also, lag can get you hit, so sometimes it's not your fault due to matchmaking as opposed to dedicated servers.

30 Attunement.------ This stat was picked based on the fact that the Fextralife dark souls 3 wikia stat calculator lied to me and told me Soul Stream (The Kamehameha spell we HAVE to use) used 1 attunement slot, and it does not. It uses 2. Because of such I had to drop Farron's Flash sword (the blue sword quick spell thing. It's fine though, we use the other sword spell and we will have an alternate weapon that will work as well and not use our FP bar for if we run out. We'll have 233 FP to work with and flasks, but I'll explain more on this later.

24 Endurance.------ This is another very important stat. This stat is how we survive, purely. We roll like a champ and avoid getting hit. Usually this stat is much higher, but we don't use it too heavily while casting and have time to regen it, so it's mostly for the rolling. It gives us 120 stamina which is enough if you're not wasting it.

14 Vitality.------ This stat is low because for us and our lack of heavy weapons, we tend to be rather lightweight. As such, we can afford this low number for our SL120 build. Our Equip load with my current setup is 37.4 / 54.0 which gives us 69.3% Weight ratio. This is pending on what you equip differently, or wear differently though.

10 Strength.------ This stat is not important for this build, but it does need to be at least 10 for our non-magic weapon. Also note that because this is low, our physical absorption takes the hit which is why I removed the Moonlight Great Sword from this build in place of more tanky armor. It's one of my favorite weapons but it's too heavy and prevents armor that balances us out and not to mention it's horrible in this game. Most players will evade the beams, and the scaling simply doesn't matter. I hit around the same with or without INT.

12 Dexterity.------ This is another stat that is not important for this build, but again it needs to be at least 12 for our non-magic weapon.

60 Intelligence.------ The MOST important stat we have. This is where all the damage comes from and before you ask, YES it needs to be 60. You will hit like a baby without it being high. I originally made it 60, changed to 50, realized I lost alot of dmg, and the Scholar Ring (+5 Intelligence ring) couldn't fix it because all of the four rings either made our casting faster or gave us more damage than the '5' levels of Intelligence that the ring would. An example are two of the four spells we'll be using. Homing Crystal Soulmass and Crystal Soul Spear.

The mob I tested on was the Respawning humanoid knight at the bottom of the steps at the Dragon-kin Mausoleum bonefire. (In the dragon area.) Without the staff's buff, Soulmass hit for 300 with all 5 orbs at 50 INT. At 60 INT, it hit for 600. That's double the damage. Spear hit for about 660ish unbuffed at 50 INT. 770ish unbuffed with 60 INT. In PVE, it's the difference between killing a mob in about 1-2 Soulmasses and 2-3 Spears, the lower number being with higher INT. Or the difference ofkilling a player with one shot Soul spear.

10 Faith.------ Now I'd like to have about 15 for Tears of Denial (The spell that keeps you from dying once), but there's simply no room in this build. If you go to SL125, I'd recommend picking it up for 10,000 souls from Irina. This build is strictly 120 to make sure to get consistent pvp.

10 Luck.------ Not an important stat for this build, and farming (farming as in trying to get mob drops) can be adjusted with items. Symbol of Avarice (Mimic Head), Covetous Gold Serpent Ring, and Crystal Sage Rapier. Etc.

Alright, lets get on to the spells!

Homing Crystal Soulmass.------ This is usually your first spell to use in combat. Uses the least amount of FP and with our stats, it does enough damage to scare people off from running up to you. So if you're in a situation where healing is permitted, you'd pop this before healing and it'll keep people off of you. This is the skill with the five orbs floating over your head, and the amount of orbs is based on your INT with 5 being the most you can have. It has a pretty quick cast time with our setup. Note that if you touch a wall with the orbs, they will shatter and disappear, so try not to cast in too small of a space. How it casts is that the orbs float above you and stay there, but if after awhile, you're facing an enemy and they're close enough, the orbs will fly at them. The trick is to turn away from enemies/players until you're ready for it to hit them unless it's being used for protection. Then you want to face them so it triggers as soon as they get close.

Crystal Soul Spear.------ This is our main source of kills. With our stats, it does redic damage. On the mob I tested earlier, it did about 800+ buffed. It casts pretty quick, and has good homing. Usually, the setup is to cast Crystal Soulmass then switch to this. Then cast it after the Soulmass shoots off for a kill, though with 60 INT you'll be 1-shotting most players with just the Spear. I usually hit somewhere from 1000-1500 buffed, and unbuffed 800-1000 on players. It's hard to tell because when I player dies, it just shows the amount of damage that kills them (that they took), not all the damage that you did. Most people around the soul level wear armor for physical which puts their magic/elemental resistance low and get hit like a truck.

Soul Greatsword.------ This spot is usually Farron's flashsword for some people which is a quick slash with a magic weapon, but the non-magic weapon that we'll be using is quick and infused with magic while scaling with it, so it'll save us FP. We use soul Greatsword because it's pretty much Flashsword with around double the reach and obscene damage. It's good for runners if you're chasing and they're nearly out of range to heal. People use Flashsword and this to trick people. Attacking rapidly with Flashsword, then switching to this because the opponent thinks they're out of range and safe, then Greatsword kills them.

Soul Stream.------ This spell is pretty much here because it's the Kamehameha from Dragon ball Z. What's not to love? It has nearly infinite range, it penetrates through enemies and most objects and it goes where your camera is facing if you aren't targeting chars. It misses alot if expected, but with practice it's a guaranteed kill or multi-kill if you line it up because people don't expect it from a distance. Anor Londo stairs are fun to hit people from the top of. It does a constant stream of about 700+ damage which will kill any player in a few seconds if they don't move. The catch is, it staggers and also knocks down so they don't always get the chance. It makes you feel like a champ and is the reserve special attack if you have the fp to spare.

Also, a funny trick is to use the Obscuring ring which is the Rosaria's Fingers covenant ring that makes you invisible from a distance. Keeps you hidden while you're starting the cast and by the time they see you, it's too late. Only use that ring if you can afford the damage loss though!

Alright, lets talk about gear! Alloting Estus/Ashen estus. For this build, it's important to have ashen estus. We have 1 source for fp regen, but it isn't near enough so you want to have at least 3 ASHEN ESTUS for FP. As a phantom, you get half of your allocation rounded down, so 15 estus is max. That means 9 Estus and 6 Ashen will give you 4 healing estus and 3 FP ashen estus as a phantom. As a phantom, this is fine, and if you're good at avoiding damage, you can adjust more.

Items are optional. There isn't too many you'll need aside from Estus, Ashen Estus, Hunter Charms to stop healers, blooming purple moss clumps depending your area of pvp/pve, and green blossom if you have issues with Stamina regen.

Rings.------ These are not really optional. Each of them adds a significant amount of damage and they help you kill quick and end fights before they get too dangerous. If you have the NG+ version of these, obviously use them, haha! Not advised to change any of these rings if you want the best damage and casting speed.

Young Dragon Ring.------ This ring adds 12% damage to sorceries. I've tested this vs. the Scholar Ring (intelligence +5 ring) and I lost about 100ish damage, so needless to say this ring beats it out.

Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring.------ This ring adds 25% damage to sorceries and stacks with other sources. It's good, so we use it.

Sage's ring.------ This ring decreases gives us 30 virtual dexterity. Dexterity reduces cast time, and as such, this virtual dexterity gives us the bonus of that reduced casting time without giving us added dexterity which is why it's called 'virtual'. Alot of spells are fast, but some of ours are slower so the boost helps.

Magic Clutch Ring.------ This ring is dangerous if you don't understand it. It raises magical attack by 15%, but reduces physical defense by 10%. What this means is due to low physical stats for most armor cloth/mage, you'll be at around 13-14 absorption for physical damages with my build, which isn't bad, but with the armor I wear, normally you'd be at about 20ish in these stats without the reduction. The 15% damage is so good it's worth it though.

My armor set is pretty much fashion souls, but effective and pushes the limit on weight without fat rolls. You can change these pieces EXCEPT for the head piece as that modifies damage.

Head -- Crown of Dusk.------ Like the Magic clutch ring, this thing is DANGEROUS, but worth it. It gives a tested (not by me, as I tested damage numbers without calculating percents) 10% while reducing your magic absorption by -30. Yes, this is alot, and it seems like a bad trade but remember that this is 10% of your damage which is going to be a ton. I lost a bit over a 100 damage on things when I didn't wear it, and that's the difference between people living or being sure they die. Also, it boosts magic weapons slightly and magic-buffed weapons aswell.

Chest -- Faraam Armor.------ This chest is heavy, but it gives good solid stats in both physical and elemental damage which is needed for this build. 10.7 being the lowest and 13 being the highest.

Gloves -- Dancer's gloves.------ The dancer set is known for being lightweight plate armor with good slash absorption and decent resistances except fire is low. This is fine because I played with armor set pieces to balance out low stats which is why this set isn't matching.

Boots -- Cathedral Knight Leggings.------ Known for being a bit on the heavy side, it has slighty lower dark resistances but good overall, 5.9 being dark and the rest being above it. Again, it balances with the rest of the armor. Basically, with this set, your physical is okay, elemental is great, and magic is horrible due to the dusk crown.

Lastly, weapons! There's a few here, some being utility and the rest actual weapons.

Left hand 1 -- Scholar's Candlestick.------ This is a dagger, and yes, I know your stats won't be high enough to use it, but you don't use it for the stats, you use it for the effect. While it's out, even while you're two-handing your staff as you should for the buff ability the candlestick gives your sorceries +20%. So even though you can't use it, it makes you stronger just by sitting on your hip. Pretty useful. You'll want this out whenever you're casting with your staff for extra damage.

Left hand 2 -- Simple infused Caestus.------ The point of this is that simple infusions give you FP regen it isn't alot, but it improves the higher the grind of the weapon. Basically, when you aren't using your Staff in your right hand, you have this out on your left, giving you FP regen while using your non-magic weapon and gives you access to parrying with your left hand due to being a Caestus and only .5 weight lets it slip into the build easily. It helps when you use fp and you're too low to cast anything, then instead of using an ashen estus, you switch to it, get just enough FP for one more big cast, then drink your ashen.

Right hand 1 -- Court Sorcerer's Staff+7. With 60 INT, it scales the best with an S rank. Mine is only +7 for the purpose of matchmaking so I don't have to wait forever because alot of people haven't +10 their stuff yet. You can go higher for maximum damage. While two-handing, it gets an ability with left trigger/L2 to buff the staff which does more casting damage. If you have the time to do it and the FP, keep your staff buffed for damage because it's noticeable and usually the difference between the player living through a Soul Spear or not if they can't tank the damage which rarely they'll be able to. As said with the candlestick, you want to have them both out while two-handing this staff.

Right hand 2 -- Crystal Estoc +7. It's crystal so it scales with magic and gets buffed by the crown of dusk, etc. You also have the option of using a regular estoc and buffing it yourself. I did it this way to save an attunement slot for crystal magic weapon. This weapon is why we don't need farron's flashsword (my opinion). It's the longest rapier in the game, has fantastic damage and scales "A" when crystal infused. It has good running R1 pokes, is fast, and its R2 is a slash that catches people off-guard. It's a solid weapon. Also, unlike flashsword, it doesn't use FP, so it makes you dangerous even if you're out of FP which happens if there's lacking invaders/dark spirits to fill your estus by killing.

We don't use the crystal sage rapier because that scaling is simply 'okay', and it's a boss weapon that uses a higher tier grinding material which counts for '2'. So Crystal rapier +2 = titanite shard weapon +4. So the highest I could get for my +7 build would be +3 which would count as +6 which isn't high enough damage wise and also you lose the reach of the estoc and such. Also it has no options of being infused or buffed while the estoc can depending on what you infuse it with, but the estoc has been working wonders for me. 100+-300ish damage depending on opponent's magic absorption.

Well, this is my pure intelligence sorc build. I'm not expert by any means, but I do destroy people online. I searched for information and kind of compiled the important bits, but how you use the character is up to you. Final note is that for the damage I output, you don't want to change the head piece, Staff, Candlestick, or rings, or intelligence level. The rest like estoc, spells, and armor is optional, though the armor has worked out for me and the spells are the most cast time-efficient for the damage. Especially both the crystal spells.

I hope this build aims to help people ease into being a sorcerer, because they are simply INSANE in PVE and PVP. I couldn't do remotely as much damage as melee and the closest I got was the Fume Greatsword before patch or the Greatsword/Black Knight Greataxe with the hornet ring after patch and still this sorc hits much higher because of how much physical absorption players lose by wearing cloth which makes people wear heavier armor with much less elemental absorption.

I apologize if there's any incorrect information. Feel free to ask about this build in this thread or correct me on any of this. The percent "%" information came from the Dark Souls 3 Wikia (which is wrong sometimes), but the damage in numbers came from me and it was tested thoroughly. Enjoy 1-2 shotting people!

Feel free to share in other forums, but link back here/give credit.

[Pneu de Barco]

pretty solid post, BUT a build like that is prrety much easy to win if you know where is your dodge button

[#FIN Suojeluskunta]

You need to stop at 27 attunement and vigor. There really is zero reason to go above 90 SL on a sorcerer, because the second enemies start to get decent shields and armor, sorcerers are absolute trash. I have the same damage output at 60 int as you despite being 30 levels lower, and the damage is really bad against any sort of good armor, which most SL90s don't have without gimping another part of their build.

Sorcery basically comes down to flashsword, homing, and the low level Arrows like Farron/Great Soul because they are quick but lower damage, it's worth keeping high damage obviously for brawls because landing a CSS with rings+candle+crystal staff buff can easily do 800-1000 on someone in 1 hit unguarded.

But, anyone with parrying or enough endurance to roll through hits makes PvP sorcerer's useless entirely, hence why it's best to stay at SL90 or even lower. Sorcerer's do well against straight sword users in terms of damage vs damage but katanas can just keep slicing and the owner can keep rolling and rolling through 6-7 of your flashswords, whereas you simply can't do the same for them, you have to catch them and stunlock them with homing which is iffy.

At low SLs sorcery is definitely viable at least in comparison to everything else besides straight sword users which are obviously not only the best damage output but the easiest to execute, but even at SL90 you can just be severely gimped against someone with good armor and good endurance.

Just my experience for a bit of invading and dueling, once the enemy knows your trick as a sorcerer it's pretty much GG, you need to surprise them as many players still don't know flashsword exists and don't care about running up to attack you.

[TheBlueFox]

I have a question, only because I've never done it before...

There's a shield that can "Parry" spells, correct?

Have you ever had a CSS parried? Does it get reflected or negated?

[TheBlueFox]

I just saw some video footage of spells getting parried. It wasn't crystal soul spear, but I was somewhat disappointed.

The way spell parries work seems to be thusly:
The spell parry animation creates a "Bubble" slightly in front of the shield user, however it extends outward and does cover behind the user, meaning you can reflect spells in a 360 degree arc from all angles. HOWEVER, attacks from the side seem to sometimes pass through a very slightly mistimed parry.

The bubble takes a slight moment to form, meaning spell parries must be performed much earlier than a normal weapon parry. The shield is not parrying the spell, the bubble is, so the bubble needs to already exist when the spell hits it.

The spell is then reflected upward, continuing in the direction that the spell was traveling, meaning it can hit enemies behind the parry, but not back at the caster (That suuuucks!).

A spell parry can still have a "Partial" parry when performed too late, dealing reduced damage AND getting reflected.

[Analyst]

Originally posted by Thery:

pretty solid post, BUT a build like that is prrety much easy to win if you know where is your dodge button

Well, knowing how to dodge is just dark souls meta, but people either run out of stamina or get impatient, and greed gets most people killed in this game during pvp.

Originally posted by Shika 죽다일본:

You need to stop at 27 attunement and vigor. There really is zero reason to go above 90 SL on a sorcerer, because the second enemies start to get decent shields and armor, sorcerers are absolute trash. I have the same damage output at 60 int as you despite being 30 levels lower, and the damage is really bad against any sort of good armor, which most SL90s don't have without gimping another part of their build.

Sorcery basically comes down to flashsword, homing, and the low level Arrows like Farron/Great Soul because they are quick but lower damage, it's worth keeping high damage obviously for brawls because landing a CSS with rings+candle+crystal staff buff can easily do 800-1000 on someone in 1 hit unguarded.

But, anyone with parrying or enough endurance to roll through hits makes PvP sorcerer's useless entirely, hence why it's best to stay at SL90 or even lower. Sorcerer's do well against straight sword users in terms of damage vs damage but katanas can just keep slicing and the owner can keep rolling and rolling through 6-7 of your flashswords, whereas you simply can't do the same for them, you have to catch them and stunlock them with homing which is iffy.

At low SLs sorcery is definitely viable at least in comparison to everything else besides straight sword users which are obviously not only the best damage output but the easiest to execute, but even at SL90 you can just be severely gimped against someone with good armor and good endurance.

Just my experience for a bit of invading and dueling, once the enemy knows your trick as a sorcerer it's pretty much GG, you need to surprise them as many players still don't know flashsword exists and don't care about running up to attack you.

This build is specifically for SL 120. It's the most active pvp bracket for serious pvp and the level in which casters become viable. Otherwise you potentially get destroyed. At 27 vigor, I one-two shot squishy casters. My buddy and I would use dried fingers, and when we saw casters, we ran at and killed them quick like fresh meat. This char was made purely for pvp, so it's nothing new for me. And yeah, I agree with the flashsword bit, which is why I don't use both of them, because I remember how easy I dodged them with melee.

Originally posted by Ginseng:

affinity instead of homing crystal soulmass is better for damage.
My sorcery build relies on high intelligence and min requirements for a katana(washing pole now crystal washing pole) So while you have to get in close with a caetus if need be i can specialmove if they ever drop guard(from a good distance) if they try rushing and its at this point they will be staggered and take a full affinity damage. I'm nowhere near your vigor but my level is only 90 atm. I like to backstab mobs to save on mana when clearing so i always have hidden body in my repetoire. Hidden body you may not know will allow me to walk though a level unscathed as well as that level being in another world with seed of a giant tree. Also you can hidden body 3-4 feet away from mimic chests and manual target attack chest with spells(never waking the mimic till it dies). Hidden body i have even when i pvp even though i also use obscuring ring and also the masking steps ring. I do not use flash sword since my katana does more magic damage with a fast attack and does full strong attack dmg with special move which also has a fast draw speed. Faster that and swords and greater range. Also the move set of a katana allows for a running fast attack that turns into a poke attack that does alot of damage and will always beat a person who just realizes and starts to swing or they roll. If this hits a sheild i then special move since they now have alowered stamina and i attack again if they are low on health. If not i back off and recast affinity and repeat move set attack of katana and if they get out of range cast crystal soulspears. But basically like you i have 50+intelligence but my fav weapon close range is a katana not a caetus so i have to invest points in dex up to 20. I have 30+attunement which i got mostly early game since its what i first invested in. My spec though need to remedy the situation of low stamina which a caetus would not lack even if you started with the original amount of stamina. The problem i find with sorcery it thecast range targeting isn't near as long as the mobs which causes troubles in pve if hidden body is not used. Also hidden body clearing with soulstream i like to do from lothric prince bonfire all the way too the golden winged flying guys in that area(on top of library)(4 hits with soulstream and just keep max range and roll away if they swoop since they don;t attack a second time since you are stealth) 60k souls per walk through this area. I don't farron flashsword since they never get the chancesince they turn to look for me and see nothing. ANd if people are this close and attacking its beacuse its a pvper. That helm i also use and the only spells that hit me are ussually dodged. Now the one thing i do different from you is i only use mana flasks and one attunement slot is for a healing spell(i use caithas from library that scales with intelligence to heal) my staff is the heritics staff upgraded but izaliths is currently being maxed since i like to use dark spells and they scale best with this. I have low faith (16). My playstyle in invading is a no honor i'm here to kill you approach. Meaning i will use mobs to kill the host and if they use seed of the giant tree i will wait near mobs and attack at weakest. Of coarce i will help other aldrich faithful if they run up and if it come to melee distance i will have affinity up before i start attack with katana. Soulstream i do not use in pvp in open areas but would definently use in catherdral of the deep when on area before rosaria's chamber so i can easily knock them off too their death. I don't agree with your spec merely because youre making it harder for yourself by even getting into melee range with mobs to use an undepowered melee spell. If you get some kind of crystal gem infusion on a longer range wep i think your spec will be more well rounded as well as lowering your need for melee spells by switching greatsword for hiddenbody.

I heard good things about affinity, but this is a more traditional build kinda thing, so it didn't go with the look, but I may use it seeing as it does cost less FP and hits harder with this INT. Oh, and the Caestus isn't for attacking or getting in close. It's purely for fp regen during downtime, though I'm thinking about +ing a handmaiden dagger. You get 1fp per hit one hand and 2 fp per hit two hand. As for hidden body, it doesn't last long enough for my liking, and I don't like that you have to appear to for the moment you recast it. In relation to the mobs, I'm not concerned. I 1-2 shot nearly all the mobs in the game, so Mimics fear me at this point, haha.

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

I have a question, only because I've never done it before...

There's a shield that can "Parry" spells, correct?

Have you ever had a CSS parried? Does it get reflected or negated?

I've never had my spells parried, it has tricky timing and it's safer to roll and evade incase there's splash, or a spell that looks like another is cast. Like soulmass and spear look the same being cast but spear casts instantly, and mass is a trigger, so the delay may make you parry too late or early. But yeah, it's supposed to essentially discard the spell behind you. I wish it did reflect, it would give them a bit more use since one has 100% physical block as well as parries which is pretty cool.

[Analyst]

Also, Genseng, just now I tested, and Homing Crystal soulmass hits more for me. Affinity hit my test mob for 450 with all orbs. Soulmass hit for 750. Both unbuffed.

[#FIN Suojeluskunta]

Originally posted by Ginseng:

just read shikas post and that person has never used hidden body i can use 3 mana flasks and clear a whole zone with backstabs.

You should try reading something entirely before posting

The bosses are the problem, you shouldn't even need hidden body and backstabs to clear any of the levels.

[#FIN Suojeluskunta]

Originally posted by Shika 죽다일본:

You need to stop at 27 attunement and vigor. There really is zero reason to go above 90 SL on a sorcerer, because the second enemies start to get decent shields and armor, sorcerers are absolute trash. I have the same damage output at 60 int as you despite being 30 levels lower, and the damage is really bad against any sort of good armor, which most SL90s don't have without gimping another part of their build.

Sorcery basically comes down to flashsword, homing, and the low level Arrows like Farron/Great Soul because they are quick but lower damage, it's worth keeping high damage obviously for brawls because landing a CSS with rings+candle+crystal staff buff can easily do 800-1000 on someone in 1 hit unguarded.

But, anyone with parrying or enough endurance to roll through hits makes PvP sorcerer's useless entirely, hence why it's best to stay at SL90 or even lower. Sorcerer's do well against straight sword users in terms of damage vs damage but katanas can just keep slicing and the owner can keep rolling and rolling through 6-7 of your flashswords, whereas you simply can't do the same for them, you have to catch them and stunlock them with homing which is iffy.

At low SLs sorcery is definitely viable at least in comparison to everything else besides straight sword users which are obviously not only the best damage output but the easiest to execute, but even at SL90 you can just be severely gimped against someone with good armor and good endurance.

Just my experience for a bit of invading and dueling, once the enemy knows your trick as a sorcerer it's pretty much GG, you need to surprise them as many players still don't know flashsword exists and don't care about running up to attack you.

This build is specifically for SL 120. It's the most active pvp bracket for serious pvp and the level in which casters become viable. Otherwise you potentially get destroyed. At 27 vigor, I one-two shot squishy casters. My buddy and I would use dried fingers, and when we saw casters, we ran at and killed them quick like fresh meat. This char was made purely for pvp, so it's nothing new for me. And yeah, I agree with the flashsword bit, which is why I don't use both of them, because I remember how easy I dodged them with melee.

[/quote]
I doubt you have any trouble rushing casters with your buddy in pvp. Bottom line is, in a 1v1, my damage output is the same as yours despite being 30 SLs lower, and vigor at 27 gives 1000 HP, I believe it's 40 where you get 1400. Diminishing returns, and the items required to get good damage on sorcerers almost all come with some sort of hp penalty or defense penalty besides the dragoncrest rings and candlestick. Sorcerers by nature will almost always 1 shot eachother due to crown, magic clutch, and possibly the -HP FP ring but I think that's not worth it.

I'd much rather be facing katana users at my level than people with Havels or insanely pumped straight sword builds at 120. At 90 most straight sword builds are glass cannons or lack damage but make up in stunlock which you can also do to them. If you pumped int to have a straight sword and homing you could've done the same thing with a pure damage dex/str build and be a lot lower level without the int

[Analyst]

Originally posted by Shika 죽다일본:

Originally posted by Shika 죽다일본:

You need to stop at 27 attunement and vigor. There really is zero reason to go above 90 SL on a sorcerer, because the second enemies start to get decent shields and armor, sorcerers are absolute trash. I have the same damage output at 60 int as you despite being 30 levels lower, and the damage is really bad against any sort of good armor, which most SL90s don't have without gimping another part of their build.

Sorcery basically comes down to flashsword, homing, and the low level Arrows like Farron/Great Soul because they are quick but lower damage, it's worth keeping high damage obviously for brawls because landing a CSS with rings+candle+crystal staff buff can easily do 800-1000 on someone in 1 hit unguarded.

But, anyone with parrying or enough endurance to roll through hits makes PvP sorcerer's useless entirely, hence why it's best to stay at SL90 or even lower. Sorcerer's do well against straight sword users in terms of damage vs damage but katanas can just keep slicing and the owner can keep rolling and rolling through 6-7 of your flashswords, whereas you simply can't do the same for them, you have to catch them and stunlock them with homing which is iffy.

At low SLs sorcery is definitely viable at least in comparison to everything else besides straight sword users which are obviously not only the best damage output but the easiest to execute, but even at SL90 you can just be severely gimped against someone with good armor and good endurance.

Just my experience for a bit of invading and dueling, once the enemy knows your trick as a sorcerer it's pretty much GG, you need to surprise them as many players still don't know flashsword exists and don't care about running up to attack you.

This build is specifically for SL 120. It's the most active pvp bracket for serious pvp and the level in which casters become viable. Otherwise you potentially get destroyed. At 27 vigor, I one-two shot squishy casters. My buddy and I would use dried fingers, and when we saw casters, we ran at and killed them quick like fresh meat. This char was made purely for pvp, so it's nothing new for me. And yeah, I agree with the flashsword bit, which is why I don't use both of them, because I remember how easy I dodged them with melee.

I doubt you have any trouble rushing casters with your buddy in pvp. Bottom line is, in a 1v1, my damage output is the same as yours despite being 30 SLs lower, and vigor at 27 gives 1000 HP, I believe it's 40 where you get 1400. Diminishing returns, and the items required to get good damage on sorcerers almost all come with some sort of hp penalty or defense penalty besides the dragoncrest rings and candlestick. Sorcerers by nature will almost always 1 shot eachother due to crown, magic clutch, and possibly the -HP FP ring but I think that's not worth it.

I'd much rather be facing katana users at my level than people with Havels or insanely pumped straight sword builds at 120. At 90 most straight sword builds are glass cannons or lack damage but make up in stunlock which you can also do to them. If you pumped int to have a straight sword and homing you could've done the same thing with a pure damage dex/str build and be a lot lower level without the int [/quote]

The difference between our stats is this though, I would only get one-shot by a caster with my added SL. A SL90 caster gets one-shot by other casters AND by melee. I don't mind the straight sword pumped at my bracket, because it means I have to play properly and not sloppy which is the essence of DKS, hard combat. It makes it exciting when I have a challenge. The havel's shield bit is annoying, but I can hit through it, or roll behind them with Soulmass. But more importantly, I have the shield splitter art on the Estoc, another reason i use it to push through shields.

At SL120, people usually stop with the gimmick weps like the Farron's GS spinning around, and have weapons that do actual damage like the Black Knight Greataxe which will destroy 27 vigor. BKGA is 376 base at +5 + my scaling was 702. And the two R1s is pretty much a combo nearly always guaranteed. So, I two shot all sorcs, and hit around 649 on people who had decent physical defense.

As for katanas, those are simply annoying. Nobody uses anything but the washing pole for the reach so they can spam R1. The only time it should be used is as a secondary weapon which is what I used it for to chase people who'd run from me to heal, because it has a good running R1 as Oroboro proved with his exile gs build.

And I use the estoc, the thrusting sword for speed/stagger. It isn't for damage as much, more so for interruption and you have to have an alternative. If you go up against someone who has magic defense stacked, which is the anti-mage build or if someone uses the Carthus Blood ring (the annoying adding iframes ring), you need to be able to hit with something other than magic, because otherwise you outright lose if the person has skill.

Basically, I understand if you want to stay at SL 90, but like all other DKS, casting isn't viable at low levels which is where the SL120 bracket came from. It's the absolute lowest you can have a decent mage. And with this game where there's matchmaking as opposed to dedicated servers, there's too many issues that could get you one-shot at 1000 hp. There's skill difference, there's you pressing the wrong button, there's luck on their behalf, there's lag, there's delayed input, etc. Any of those reasons or more is why I have vigor soft-capped. As I said before, I tried having 27 vigor, but I got hit for far too much if I got hit and in fight-clubs where you don't heal, that's bad since you keep that until the end of the fight. And also in non-fight clubs that's bad since you have less estus due to having to use Ashen ones and there may be multiple players and mobs might be in there too.

Regardless, it's not like I could just drop down to SL90, because if so I'd prolly do it just for covenant reasons since I've never been summoned as an Alder, Watchdog, Sent, or Darkmoon. But I checked for the most active mix for different players which is why I went to 120. I wanted to fight mages as well as melee, people who do bleed, dagger people, etc. You don't get that variety at low SL because people just want to do easy damage by R1 spamming.

Moving on, I appreciate the responses, Shika. Yours has logic as opposed to conversations I've seen on other threads, haha.

Edit: Oh, and backcrits/riposte hit for around 700-900 with hornet ring with decent weapons, and a bit over 1000 with good weapons, and 1200-1500 with the best weapns/stats mix, so yeah, I wouldn't live in my bracket. Hornet ring is one of the most used rings at higher tier pvp since it only works on humanoid enemies which are mostly found via other actual players.