Dark Souls 3 takes place before DS2

[Black Snake]

So I've played the game multiple times now, circled over the lore, and came up with theories. DS3 ignores DS2 because it actually takes place before DS2. Here me out here.

We learned in DS2 that both endings in DS1 were canon. If we light the bonfire we only extend the world for a short while (bout 1000 years). but if we walk away, it doesn't matter, because there will always be somebody else who will light it. This is important to note because in DS3, 2 of the endings do nothing to change the age of fire. If we kill the boss and light the fire, all we did was start a new era.... somebody else will come by eventually and strike us down. But if we choose the dark ending and let the fire keeper put out the fire, before the credits she mentions that it also won't matter. new fires will be born in the darkness someday. Why does this matter? Because if the end of fire ending is canon, then it gives us a clean slate at a new world. A world where lordran was just a myth and no gods exist. Where new gods could start their own fires and build their own kingdoms. A place like Drangleic.

It seems strange that there are so few chars that return in DS2 but so many in DS3. the only one I can remember for sure who returned was Ornstein in DS2........ and even he may not truly be Ornstein...... We know that Gwynn had many knights who dawned the dragonslayer armor and fought dragons. We also know the Captain (Ornstein) was sent to go find the nameless king and was killed in the process. This Old Dragonslayer in DS2 may very well be either an Ornstein that came from the abyss or just another man who dawned the very same armor.

The one argument can be made for the dead laddersmith in the profained capital. This one is hard to explain, except for the fact that you have to remember that this takes place years before the events of the second game. Laddersmith G. could have had an ancestor who died there... Even weirder is the statement that with each age of fire, events repeat himself. Just look at patches. Mysteriously appears in every game with no logic.... (unless it's not the same patches) the world repeats itself. This guy is not the same patches per say and neither is this the same laddersmith.

The next problem is the drang armour found in the cathedral... Honestly it is a problem. We know by the lore that it is the kings armor from DS2 but it does strike me as strange that it is mentioned as Drang Armor and not Drangleic armor. and those hammers never belonged to the king. (he was known to use a great sword) So it is possible they used the same looking armor to describe an ancient kingdom (stretch I know)

Lucatiels mask is written off by the fact that the only way to aquire it is from our crow. We have no clue who this crow is and where it gets it's items. I'd like to believe that these were items that did not fit logically in the game world so they put it in as..... Fanservice/rewards. I don't think they are canon as there is no logic to them. The armor is found in the undead settlement but it never mentions lucatiel, only mirrah, which most likely existed during all three games (but just wasn't mentioned in DS1)

So where does that leave us? It is possible that at the end of DS1 somebody managed to link the fire.. we extended the age of fire for multiple generations. Kings come and go as they do. But after time the fire begins to fade and the previous lords decide they don't want to pull this crap anymore. They give up..... They go home to live out their final days. Queue DS3. we try to fix it in an attempt to extend the age of man....... Until we realize that it does matter. We either link the fire AGAIN (and extend the age of man some more) or we put the flame out for good. let the age of darkness begins.

But it doesn't matter....... it never has. The fire will return..... small at first and then burst to life. a new fire is born (maybe millions of years later) lands are built and the cycle begins again. After an unknown time Drangleic is built. this is where we end the story........ Aldia said it best. It doesn't matter what we do. Do we want to be the next monarch? doomed to complete the cycle once again? or shall we walk away.......

Sorry for the long winded post. I doubt many people will read it all.

[redrobin3]

nope the game is after DS 2 after looking at all the lore properly

[Black Snake]

Originally posted by redrobin3:

nope the game is after DS 2 after looking at all the lore properly

Like?

[bluetooth brexit bandit]

I always just figured Miyazaki thought Dark 2 was utter crap so he booted it from the canon and kept some cool armor sets.

[GMҞ]

You can lose max hp by dying in 2. You can't in 3.

[Black Snake]

Originally posted by THE SKY PRINCE OF ARABIA:

I always just figured Miyazaki thought Dark 2 was utter crap so he booted it from the canon and kept some cool armor sets.

Miyazaki actually stated in an interview that he loved what dark souls 2 did for the story of the series and oversaw much of the production (just didn't direct the game)

[Black Snake]

Originally posted by gmk:

You can lose max hp by dying in 2. You can't in 3.

And? you don't lose max health in DS1.. Does that mean ds1 takes place after 2?

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

My theory (won't go into too much detail, to keep this from being a novel):
Dark Souls 2 is what happens if the Chosen Undead picked the dark ending in the first game
(in which case it's the same location, but everything has changed, such as there is no real Kiln of the First Flame, only the Throne of Want; there is a Hollow King instead of a Lord of Cinder; the "Gods" have all but disappeared, even forgotten to some extent, and their buildings replaced with those of Man, with only their power/soul remnants and the machinations of Man and their attempts, and failures, to utilize these powers/souls; and so on - but the cycle still repeats anyway as there will always be one born to kindle the fire)

Dark Souls 3 is what happens if the Chosen Undead links the fire in the first game
(in which case for the most part, everything remains the same, and the next Chosen Undead has the same or similar decisions as in DkS1 with the final battle against a Lord of Cinder in the Kiln; perhaps this cycle repeating again earlier than the last which is why there is Ember, and some of the Old Gods and their children still exist, like Gwyndolin getting eaten by Aldritch - plus Anor Londo and some other locales survived - the cycle still repeats)

As for Ornstein: If my theory is correct, Ornstein is explained in two ways (no matter which, the DkS1 version was an illusion by Gwyndolin).

If you picked the Dark Ending in DkS1, resulting in the events of DkS2, Ornstein's purpose is lost (more than likely because the Nameless King, a descendent of Gwyn who is now without fire, died and faded away) and he becomes the Old Dragonslayer. Weak, without flame, even uses Dark now, etc.

If you Linked the Fire in DkS1, resulting in the events of DkS3, Ornstein made it to Archdragon Peak in search of his old master (Nameless King) and died there (which is why his spear and armor are there).

One of his item descriptions mentioned that he had left in search of Gwyn's first son (Nameless King) so that would explain why his remains are in Archdragon in DkS3, and why the Old Dragonslayer existed in DkS2 as a purposeless shadow of his former self, unworthy even of his title (as he failed his King, the rest of his kin have perished to the DkS1 Chosen Undead, and so on).

[GMҞ]

Originally posted by Black Snake:

Originally posted by gmk:

You can lose max hp by dying in 2. You can't in 3.

And? you don't lose max health in DS1.. Does that mean ds1 takes place after 2?

Explain the sun. Explain Aldia's dialogue about "the light and the dark or something else entirely". Explain Fume UGS desc.

[Verdant]

All time is convoluted since the linkings and the setting of DS3 is a place where all the kingdoms got mashed into close proximity due to the knowledge gained from DS2:SotFS.

It is a spoiler but there is an ending in Dark Souls 3 that ACTUALLY ends the age of fire and makes it so no random unkindled can wander the passages of time to kindle it after you. It is a very story driven ending to get that I don't want to spoil for you but rest assured it is only possible if DS2 was before DS3.

[Carcaroff]

But what about the Fume knight sword? And the portrait of Nashandra? And the throne of the old iron king? Vendrick's shield?

[NEGRO LANGA]

Originally posted by gmk:

Originally posted by Black Snake:

And? you don't lose max health in DS1.. Does that mean ds1 takes place after 2?

Explain the sun. Explain Aldia's dialogue about "the light and the dark or something else entirely". Explain Fume UGS desc.

Rekt.

[Black Snake]

Okay, if Dark Souls 2 truly did take place before 3, explain to me this......

1. Why are the four lord souls found in drangleic?
2. Why are there rings and armor in DS2 that have descriptions and visuals of wear and tear (like the old leo ring) that are magically in pristine condition in DS3
3. Why does nobody mention the deeds of DS2 (Other than the theory of DS2 wasn't Canon)
4. Why is Lordran still around in DS3 when it is mentioned as an Ancient place of times past in DS2

I like the idea of each ending in DS1 leading to a different game. That makes an interesting theory.

[redrobin3]

Originally posted by Verdagent:

All time is convoluted since the linkings and the setting of DS3 is a place where all the kingdoms got mashed into close proximity due to the knowledge gained from DS2:SotFS.

It is a spoiler but there is an ending in Dark Souls 3 that ACTUALLY ends the age of fire and makes it so no random unkindled can wander the passages of time to kindle it after you. It is a very story driven ending to get that I don't want to spoil for you but rest assured it is only possible if DS2 was before DS3.

This is what i meant when i said it's in the lore. Didn't want to spoil anything though unless you look it up online.

[TisEric]

Lucatiels mask description;

A Hollow once fought valiantly with this mask, but feared the fading of her self, and implored a comrade remember her name.

Perhaps that is why this gentleman's mask is named after a woman.

A.k.a. If you followed her story in DS2 you became the comrade she asked to remember her name and now in DS3 you find her old mask that is now named after her i suspect by the DS2 chosen one.

[Sifer2]

Originally posted by EmpirePhoenix:

Lucatiels mask description;

A Hollow once fought valiantly with this mask, but feared the fading of her self, and implored a comrade remember her name.

Perhaps that is why this gentleman's mask is named after a woman.

A.k.a. If you followed her story in DS2 you became the comrade she asked to remember her name and now in DS3 you find her old mask that is now named after her i suspect by the DS2 chosen one.

Yeah that. DS2 Giants are present. And a dude that looks like the Ladder guy is dead in this game. Probably more stuff but that's already pretty good evidence. It's just pretty odd there is so littler reference to Drangleic, and that Anor Londo is still around. Even if it is surrounded by a different kingdom.