So Ursurption of fire vs Ending the fire

[Freestyle]

what exactly would be the difference other than u being the 'lord of hollows' or a new 'dark lord'

both are what Kaathe desires,right?

[zanos]

I was wondering this as well...

[Myrmuz [IRL]]

There still seems to be light in the sky in the Usurpation ending, even if its changed. Ending the Fire is just darkness like untended graves.

[Mepho]

You undergo a ritual to become able of harnessing both dark (the hollowing/dark sigil) and fire at the same time.

It is unclear what Kaathe actually desires, but it's certainly something involving the end of the age of fire.

[Freestyle]

well from what i jst saw u somehow 'absorb' the fire and the dark sigils inside of resonates with it

but who knows what significance this will bring, both seem similar endings tbh

wish fromsoft would finally show us the age of dark xD

[Clover]

Usurpation gives the possibility of something different happening, as opposed to what you see in Untended Graves. What that means we don't really know, and I somehow don't think Miyazaki is ever going to explain it.

[BlazeRomulus]

Lord of Hollows ends the cycle, but you somehow manage to take the fire with you. So you are basically a God i imagine, if you can actually use it's powers.

[Freestyle]

But doesnt Kaathe want to 'end the gods'? He talks about the dark but also of the age of man, why are the darkwraiths doing this if ur jst replacing a god

[BlazeRomulus]

^ Yeah i guess i frazed it wrong, you are a "Lord" in charge of everything, which is basically a God in my book, what i imagine would happen is you start conquering the rest of cities since you basically have the flame with you now.

The real question is, did the flame die out or is it forever in a "dying state" ? Is it a Dark age where you are in control in contrast to the Dark Age where you simply did your part and go away?

[EvilEmperorZurg]

I think of ending the fire like raking leaves into a pile. They'll be everywhere again in no time. Usurpation is more like raking them into a container and sealing it shut. What I wanna know is if the container (The lord of hollows) eventually destroys or changes what's inside in some way.

In my opinion that's probably not what happens. The whole yin and yang thing still doesnt seem to have been unbalanced. Moreso moved around in equal proportion. Who's to say solaire won't come stab you in the dark sigil with the sunlight straight sword and undo all of your hard fire eating work?

[Freestyle]

So doesnt that jst begin a cycle of this 'ursuption' meaning when one lord is growing weak someone else would replace him? Are Darkwraiths trying to fight the abyss or sth? Kaathe summoned Manus in Oolacile but maybe it wasnt on purpose?

[EvilEmperorZurg]

Originally posted by Freestyle:

So doesnt that jst begin a cycle of this 'ursuption' meaning when one lord is growing weak someone else would replace him? Are Darkwraiths trying to fight the abyss or sth? Kaathe summoned Manus in Oolacile but maybe it wasnt on purpose?

I think that's idea. The cycle parallels life and death. Can't have one without the other. But the parallel bleeds into other areas as well. Power and weakness. Rich and poor. Wisdom and Ignorance. I think miyazaki has been trying to tell fans for years that dark souls isnt so mysterious if you look at real life dichotomies alongside dark souls dichotomies. IMHO the player character in DS just represents humans as an intelligent species seeking answers to something that isnt a question. Some things just are and no amount of anything will change that.

[Mepho]

Originally posted by Freestyle:

So doesnt that jst begin a cycle of this 'ursuption' meaning when one lord is growing weak someone else would replace him? Are Darkwraiths trying to fight the abyss or sth? Kaathe summoned Manus in Oolacile but maybe it wasnt on purpose?

Presumably, Kaathe brought the Abyss to Oolacile, Manus just came with it being the (once again, presumably) most powerful entity in there, drawn to the humanity on the surface (why Dusk in particular I have no clue [edit] maybe it had something to do with the pendant? I can't remember [/edit]).
The fire itself is established as "immortal" by now, as we know that linking the fire or not won't extinguish the flame, just postpone its rekindling (which is in contrast with the fading through the ages theme somehow, more similar to a phoenix sterotype). Given that we can assume that once its power is contained, it won't ever completely fade. Only diminish and grow in turn.

We know that an unkindled is merely an empty vessel for souls (which are a product of the first flame), and we're pushed to "exploit ourselves" as a container for the "power of fire" littered around the world. So we accrue powerful souls (the lords of cinder) to refuel the Kiln.
The darksign quest sends on a path of "enhancing" the vessel (ourselves) so that it can contain darkness (product of the Dark Soul) as well.

From this, assuming the Dark Soul works something like the First Flame (which is never outright said), it's reasonable to assume that inside ourselves/the vessel both forces would reach an equilibrium, meaning that as the fire "power" fades, the dark "power" grows stronger and vice versa, making us the undying most powerful being in DS history, the usher of a new age (the one of dark).

[Freestyle]

Interesting viewpoint

well its pretty complex for the fact that u really have to look for ur own answers, every small detail counts.
I jst wish we went past the blasted age of fire for once lol.

[Mew Tea]

so instead i give you a straight answer, what about i ask you few and you go figure out by yourself?


in dark souls 1, if player chooce the dark lord, does it make it any different at all?

in dark souls 2, if player let the flame faded alone but not do it in the first flame, whats the point?

in dark souls 3, all those options are there, same and repetitive, and most of people cant even
have a solid point of "story" its because there are none of it , in such dark souls world theres
no real good or bad, just like real life, a traitor looking person can be end up real traitor,
a charm looking person, sitll can ended up a real traitor in story,

so what should you do? kill them all? trust only yourself? because all of them a lying lunatic?

or what, trust some of them, and then realise some of them are just liar and traitor?

so what now, whats the difference between stealing fire and killing fire or linking fire?

what do you think?




oh by the way, i will never forgive what Kaathe did in Oocilia's home world, the began of abyss,
and the start of insane loop of corrupted humanity combintion cluster ♥♥♥♥, manus.