Can't say I like the parrying, compared to Dark Souls 1.

[Majestic]

Now something can be said for the instant parry being unrealistic, and this being more realistic.
But the enemies, in the high wall section where I am now (just started), just seem to flurry with basically no 'tell'.

So that + the activation frames make for very mixed results with parrying. They can just be standing there and within a few frames unleash a flurry, that with even a partial parry takes your health off because of the follow-up swings.

Enemies in Dark Souls 1 often had ridiculous starting animations/'tells'. But this is the other extreme imho. It's much more twitchy, will take an extreme amount of unlearning (240hrs in DS1) to get adjusted...

EDIT: or maybe get rid of this medium shield :'')

[Majestic]

In all honesty, and setting myself for a "git gud" barrage. This game is designed to be hard, whereas Dark Souls 1 wasn't.

The amount of enemy tracking, speed of attacks and lack of forgiving attitude reeks of "this is what you wanted right?".

I'll get by, and finish it. But i'm not drawn in the game as much due to the fact you can lose all your estus on some random knight spamming his flurries, burns through your stamina, is standing on a record player so you can't backstab and makes it very difficult to parry due to the fast activation animations.

Maybe it's because I haven't played Bloodborne, but as a DS1 player this just seems extremely jarring.

[Tomas Mac Mordain]

Originally posted by Majestic:

In all honesty, and setting myself for a "git gud" barrage. This game is designed to be hard, whereas Dark Souls 1 wasn't.

The amount of enemy tracking, speed of attacks and lack of forgiving attitude reeks of "this is what you wanted right?".

I'll get by, and finish it. But i'm not drawn in the game as much due to the fact you can lose all your estus on some random knight spamming his flurries, burns through your stamina, is standing on a record player so you can't backstab and makes it very difficult to parry due to the fast activation animations.

Maybe it's because I haven't played Bloodborne, but as a DS1 player this just seems extremely jarring.

Yes, parrying apparently is less central to success now. R1 spamming is what brings you victory! DS3 has great animations, great models, but in an effort to make the combat fast, more visceral and less predictable, it made some questionable choices.

The way poise works now, the way you're supposed to almost always get a second hit in after a first, the way enemies don't seem to have stamina, the way your own stamina you don't even have to pay attention to after upgrading a bit, the way enemy attacks are cartoonish and unplausible. Cape skellies in catacombs and pontiff knights came straight from some undead circus for example. The way nothing seems to take a mere swing at you that you can reliably parry. Their attacks are either too fast to even react to, or stupidly delayed (like many DS2 mobs), or have no clear hitbox to even parry into, like many spinning attacks.

This game is designed to be difficult in a certain way, and the easiest way to get around that difficulty is to not play in any sophisticated way: Dodge R1 R1, dodge, dodge R1 R1. Fish for a backstab if the enemy looks about humansize. Repeat.

I'm thinking the combat system got less engaging and sort of dumbed down. Which is a pity, because the production value of this game in the quality of animation, assets and music is among the very best this industry has ever produced...

[Kutya7701]

Backstab fishing and easy parries made DS1 a cakewalk for a lot of the enemies. And don't even try to tell me DS1 wasn't designed to be hard. Capra Demon surprise gangbang with the 2 dogs ? The fairly cheap bridge Drake ? The entirety of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Blighttown with toxic that WILL kill you if you don't have a fairly low drop chance moss ?

Sen's house of fun ? The Silver Knight archers on the buttress ? The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Anor Londo slam jam team O&S ? And we're not even at the best part yet.

The 12 Taurus Demons in Demon Ruins who will gank you so hard if you dare activate more than one. The reused 2 man squads of Capra Demons on the way to the reused Stray Demon. The Bed of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ? Seath's instacurse attacks that not only kill you but drop your framerate into single digits ? The 4 kings AKA ''Do you deal 1300 damage/minute ? If yes YOU WIN if no get ♥♥♥♥♥♥''. And last but not least the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 4 legged dog skeleton things in the Tomb of Giants.

DS3 is harder but it's a lot fairer than DS1, and no more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reused boss enemies past the midway point of the game.

And I've had no trouble parrying with a medium shield in DS3, so if you use a small shield it should be even easier.

[Majestic]

Originally posted by vile zergling:

Yes, parrying apparently is less central to success now. R1 spamming is what brings you victory! DS3 has great animations, great models, but in an effort to make the combat fast, more visceral and less predictable, it made some questionable choices.

A pity indeed, just seems as though the game wasn't designed the same way.

Originally posted by Kutya7701:

And don't even try to tell me DS1 wasn't designed to be hard.

I think you're missing the nuance here. DS1 wasn't meant to be easy, but every obstacle had a methodical solution available. Out of all the examples you mentioned, the only one I agree with is the Capra Demon. That was a cheap meatgrinder, and noone would disagree.

But the rest could be dealth with by equipping the correct items, usually found in the area before it, or taking a slow and methodic aproach. This game seems to punish the slow and methodic aproach.

And there are a lot more cheap instadeaths in this game If you haven't watched any VODS.

[Kutya7701]

Originally posted by vile zergling:

Originally posted by Majestic:

In all honesty, and setting myself for a "git gud" barrage. This game is designed to be hard, whereas Dark Souls 1 wasn't.

The amount of enemy tracking, speed of attacks and lack of forgiving attitude reeks of "this is what you wanted right?".

I'll get by, and finish it. But i'm not drawn in the game as much due to the fact you can lose all your estus on some random knight spamming his flurries, burns through your stamina, is standing on a record player so you can't backstab and makes it very difficult to parry due to the fast activation animations.

Maybe it's because I haven't played Bloodborne, but as a DS1 player this just seems extremely jarring.

Yes, parrying apparently is less central to success now. R1 spamming is what brings you victory! DS3 has great animations, great models, but in an effort to make the combat fast, more visceral and less predictable, it made some questionable choices.

The way poise works now, the way you're supposed to almost always get a second hit in after a first, the way enemies don't seem to have stamina, the way your own stamina you don't even have to pay attention to after upgrading a bit, the way enemy attacks are cartoonish and unplausible. Cape skellies in catacombs and pontiff knights came straight from some undead circus for example. The way nothing seems to take a mere swing at you that you can reliably parry. Their attacks are either too fast to even react to, or stupidly delayed (like many DS2 mobs), or have no clear hitbox to even parry into, like many spinning attacks.

This game is designed to be difficult in a certain way, and the easiest way to get around that difficulty is to not play in any sophisticated way: Dodge R1 R1, dodge, dodge R1 R1. Fish for a backstab if the enemy looks about humansize. Repeat.

I'm thinking the combat system got less engaging and sort of dumbed down. Which is a pity, because the production value of this game in the quality of animation, assets and music is among the very best this industry has ever produced...

This sounds a lot like a you problem honestly. I've had little to no problem parrying enemies even with a medium shield, let alone a small one. And getting in 2 hits has always been a thing even in DS1. And don't even try to tell me the combat was dumbed down when compared to DS1 where I could Twohanded R2 Zweihander every enemy and pancake stunlock them. Yes even Black Knights.

Enemy attacks are cartoonish and unplausible ? Gee sorry, I must've forgot Dark Souls was a realistic medieval combat game. Just don't mind the skeletons that throw themselves at you, the skeletons in wheels that can track you perfectly, Giants that are somehow capable of a huge backstep, big ass Snakemen etc. The games have always been full of completely unrealistic attacks, and DS3 is no exception.

[Krono]

Git gud scrub












....sorry, had to. I've found the parry window to be just slighty earlier than in ds1. You parry a tiny bit earlier than you would in that game. Takes more practice but I can parry pretty consistently with my small shield now

[Vash]

360 parry spam is the new meta, get on board.

[Majestic]

Originally posted by Krono:

....sorry, had to.

No offense taken. I know it's partially my fault, but where DS1 parrying was overly easy, here it's made overly difficult. The input latency, higher activation frames, the relentless flurries if you fail and the incredibly fast enemy animations make it extremely twitchy.

Originally posted by Krono:

I've found the parry window to be just slighty earlier than in ds1. You parry a tiny bit earlier than you would in that game. Takes more practice but I can parry pretty consistently with my small shield now

Yeah but sometimes the enemy has attacked you within the input delay... Not sure how i'm able to predict an enemy attack...

[Kutya7701]

Originally posted by Majestic:

Originally posted by vile zergling:

Yes, parrying apparently is less central to success now. R1 spamming is what brings you victory! DS3 has great animations, great models, but in an effort to make the combat fast, more visceral and less predictable, it made some questionable choices.

A pity indeed, just seems as though the game wasn't designed the same way.

Originally posted by Kutya7701:

And don't even try to tell me DS1 wasn't designed to be hard.

I think you're missing the nuance here. DS1 wasn't meant to be easy, but every obstacle had a methodical solution available. Out of all the examples you mentioned, the only one I agree with is the Capra Demon. That was a cheap meatgrinder, and noone would disagree.

But the rest could be dealth with by equipping the correct items, usually found in the area before it, or taking a slow and methodic aproach. This game seems to punish the slow and methodic aproach.

And there are a lot more cheap instadeaths in this game If you haven't watched any VODS.

You take a slow methodic walk on that bridge while your ass gets toasted by the dragon see how it works out. Drawing reused enemies one by one because the devs decided to put 12 of them ready to gangbang you was tedious and not fun. And for the record, the only really cheap instadeath I remember off the top of my head was those tall unarmed ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the poison swamp. Screw their grab attacks.

[38]

Originally posted by Kutya7701:

Backstab fishing and easy parries made DS1 a cakewalk for a lot of the enemies. And don't even try to tell me DS1 wasn't designed to be hard. Capra Demon surprise gangbang with the 2 dogs ? The fairly cheap bridge Drake ? The entirety of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Blighttown with toxic that WILL kill you if you don't have a fairly low drop chance moss ?

Sen's house of fun ? The Silver Knight archers on the buttress ? The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Anor Londo slam jam team O&S ? And we're not even at the best part yet.

The 12 Taurus Demons in Demon Ruins who will gank you so hard if you dare activate more than one. The reused 2 man squads of Capra Demons on the way to the reused Stray Demon. The Bed of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ? Seath's instacurse attacks that not only kill you but drop your framerate into single digits ? The 4 kings AKA ''Do you deal 1300 damage/minute ? If yes YOU WIN if no get ♥♥♥♥♥♥''. And last but not least the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 4 legged dog skeleton things in the Tomb of Giants.

DS3 is harder but it's a lot fairer than DS1, and no more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reused boss enemies past the midway point of the game.

And I've had no trouble parrying with a medium shield in DS3, so if you use a small shield it should be even easier.

Atleast, Dark Souls 1 was mostly designed around 1v1 combat instead of cheap ambushes around every corner. But every Souls games has it's flaws. After playing Bloodborne, I expected Dark Souls 3 to be a more polished experience to be honest, but it's far from that. It also didn't bring anything new to the table. Dark Souls 3 (or maybe DS2 when talking about level design/atmosphere) is probably my least favorite Souls game so far (and it's still very good I tell ya!).

I was also hoping on more variety in builds that will keep the PvP and PvE interesting by adding a lot of new magic, hexes, pyromancy or miracles. Maybe the DLC will fix that.

Also, Sen's Fortress was so cool. It's the last 4 area's in Dark Souls 1 that were completely annoying.

[Majestic]

Originally posted by Kutya7701:

You take a slow methodic walk on that bridge while your ass gets toasted by the dragon see how it works out. Drawing reused enemies one by one because the devs decided to put 12 of them ready to gangbang you was tedious and not fun.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

[38]

Originally posted by Majestic:

And there are a lot more cheap instadeaths in this game If you haven't watched any VODS.

Yes, Bloodborne has the same 1 shot cheap deaths (some bosses could literally kill you in one hit if you didn't had enough HP). And the lifedraining suckers feels like frenzy to me, terrible attempts to make the game harder. I sometimes felt like they made this game hard for the sake of it.

[lolschrauber]

No offense, but don't you just need some more practice? I agree that it feels different, but it shouldn't be too hard.

I remember being halfway through the first game until I even understood what the parry move actually is, but I never learned to properly use it.

In the second game, I never used it because I remember being bad at it. When I recently played it, I grabbed a small shield and tried it out for a bit on different enemies until I got the hang of it.

Areas like Brume Tower were so shockingly easy compared to previous playthroughs, just parry and 1hit almost everything, lol

[Majestic]

Originally posted by Jean Pierre:

I sometimes felt like they made this game hard for the sake of it.

I got the same vibe from DS2 compared to 1.

Originally posted by lolschrauber:

No offense, but don't you just need some more practice?

None taken, as I do mention that several times in this thread...

[Tomas Mac Mordain]

Originally posted by Kutya7701:

This sounds a lot like a you problem honestly. I've had little to no problem parrying enemies even with a medium shield, let alone a small one. And getting in 2 hits has always been a thing even in DS1. And don't even try to tell me the combat was dumbed down when compared to DS1 where I could Twohanded R2 Zweihander every enemy and pancake stunlock them. Yes even Black Knights.

That is not true. The Zweihander was not a fits all solution to everything. Upgrading it to max and mowing through early game content does not count. Plenty of stuff you could not just 'stunlock' with a stamina bar that depletes after the third strike. Especially when not in a 1vs1 situation.

Originally posted by Kutya7701:

Enemy attacks are cartoonish and unplausible ? Gee sorry, I must've forgot Dark Souls was a realistic medieval combat game. Just don't mind the skeletons that throw themselves at you, the skeletons in wheels that can track you perfectly, Giants that are somehow capable of a huge backstep, big ass Snakemen etc. The games have always been full of completely unrealistic attacks, and DS3 is no exception.

I prefer to play the game where the spinning skellies are a gimmick, and the backstep is a necessity to somewhat balance their clumsiness: these occurrences are exceptions. Everything else mostly behaves like basic physics, gravity and momentum are a thing. In that regard I don't mind the snake man the crystal mobs, or the spear demons at all.