Leonhard: The One True Good Guy

[Pebbles]

Has anyone ever given any thought to the story of Leonhard? He is NOT the bad guy, we are.

Quoting Leonhard's Mask:
"In his youth, Leonhard suffered grave burns to his entire body. His face in particular, which he hid beneath his mask, was terribly scalded.
He abstained from restoring these injuries, even after becoming a Finger of Rosaria"

Why hasn't him used Rosaria's power to reborn? Not because he doesn't want to, but because he CAN'T. Why? Because he hasn't offered a single tongue to Rosaria.
Think about it, out of all the fingers (Kirk, Creighton, Heysel), Leonhard is the only one who DOESN'T invade us. In face he didn't even invade once! It is safe to say that the 5 Cracked Red Eye Orbs were once Leonhard's Orb, then crushed by himself.

Why doesn't Leonhard invade or offer tongue then? Because to Leonhard, [Those who invade and offer tongues to Rosaria are 'defiling' her.] For all other fingers (including us), Rosaria is just a tool, a way to reborn. So Leonhard, who is truly in love with Rosaria, see all other fingers as flithy scums.
Leonhard uses his Cracked Orb and kind attitude to lure potential fingers (us), puts us through some tasks then invites us to become fingers. But the moment we become a finger and offer a tongue, he immediately changes into an warning, almost aggressive tone to tell us basically "f@ck off".

Later in the game, Leonhard "kills" Rosaria and takes her soul away. He does that to keep her soul from being "tainted". He thinks it should be fine for the fingers, as we can still offer tongues and reborn even though Rosaria is "dead".
But we? We just go straight to kill him, to retrive Rosaria's soul for a spell! We are the greedy ones! That's why Leonhard is so angry when we invade him.

So yeah, how'd you feel now huh? You murderer-psychopath?
Souls Games are so good because we are always the bad guys, and the supposed "bad" guys (bosses and hostile NPCs) are actually the good guys.

[Merilirem]

Nothing new here, was obvious as hell. Im also fine with this, i literally plunge the world into darkness the moment i can, everytime, everygame. If im not in charge, no one is.

[SilverDandelion]

im always a murderer . . .
i kill anyone i dont need (anymore)

[garjian]

Originally posted by SilverDandelion:

im always a murderer . . .
i kill anyone i dont need (anymore)

Oh boy.

[Slug Camargo]

Originally posted by Novalex:

Souls Games are so good because we are always the bad guys, and the supposed "bad" guys (bosses and hostile NPCs) are actually the good guys.

In fact, these games are good because the concept of "good guys" and "bad guys" is always rather muddy and questionable: Everyone has their own agenda and a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of skeletons stuffed in their closet.

To me, the closest to a "good guy" would be Gwyndolyn, but even he is (was) just working to preserve the glory of his father, who was actually a cowardly lying sack of ♥♥♥♥.

Actually, Nameless King is probably the closest to a "good guy".

[dingustus]

Very few characters in the game can even be considered "good guys." What makes Dark Souls so awesome is that it throws the good vs evil cliche out the window and shows each character with their own motivations and goals. The only character I would call a true "good guy" would be Solaire, but even he faces with his own doubts.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

I can think of a few arguably "good characters throughout the series. Ostrava, Stockpile Thomas, Greirat, Leonhardt, Eileen are among a few of them.

[gackie]

Nice one man. This is a pretty solid theory.

[Skeleton]

Originally posted by Novalex:

Later in the game, Leonhard "kills" Rosaria and takes her soul away. He does that to keep her soul from being "tainted".

So he kills one of the last Gods, but it's okay because he loves her.
If your metric of what makes characters a "good guy" is whether they feel they're right, then everyone's a good guy. Hannibal Lecter thought he was justified, after all.

[gackie]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

Originally posted by Novalex:

Later in the game, Leonhard "kills" Rosaria and takes her soul away. He does that to keep her soul from being "tainted".

So he kills one of the last Gods, but it's okay because he loves her.
If your metric of what makes characters a "good guy" is whether they feel they're right, then everyone's a good guy. Hannibal Lecter thought he was justified, after all.

ftftftftftftftftfttftf

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

Originally posted by Novalex:

Later in the game, Leonhard "kills" Rosaria and takes her soul away. He does that to keep her soul from being "tainted".

So he kills one of the last Gods, but it's okay because he loves her.
If your metric of what makes characters a "good guy" is whether they feel they're right, then everyone's a good guy. Hannibal Lecter thought he was justified, after all.

I mean, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.

Morals can often lead into grey areas, as people hold different values. I think it's up to a universal standard of what is good, bad, and acceptable should be laid down in order to determine if any Souls character is objectively good.

IMO, Leonhardt did what he felt was neccesary to save Rosaria's Soul. Was it the best path? Maybe not, but we can sympathize with what he did.

[Cooman]

Originally posted by Kingseeker Camargo:

Originally posted by Novalex:

Souls Games are so good because we are always the bad guys, and the supposed "bad" guys (bosses and hostile NPCs) are actually the good guys.

In fact, these games are good because the concept of "good guys" and "bad guys" is always rather muddy and questionable: Everyone has their own agenda and a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of skeletons stuffed in their closet.

To me, the closest to a "good guy" would be Gwyndolyn, but even he is (was) just working to preserve the glory of his father, who was actually a cowardly lying sack of ♥♥♥♥.

Actually, Nameless King is probably the closest to a "good guy".

erhm....siegward....siegmeyer....these guys truly are good in nature, siegward purely wanted to fulfill a promise to an old friend.

solaire, an honourable man that praises the sun and wishes to help the chosen undead

the astora knight that saves us in ds1, he wanted to be the chosen undead, he realised he wasn't, so did he become a bitter ♥♥♥♥? no he gave his life to help us, completely selfless.

lucatiel, she merely wanted to save her brother, and she was terrified at the fate that she knew would happen, yet she still strived to do what she could.

and so on, yes many things aren't as they seem, but in the dark souls universe there are many pure good hearted people that sacrifice themselves for the greater good, and have honour.

[zXr]

Have we forgotten Holy Knight Hodrick?

Best guy out there, escaped his wife, who is the MOST EVIL INCARANTE of all the soul series, and tried to help those being Hollowed, have some shred of purpose and family as they they lost their last shreds of sanity. Lets not forget how his grandaughter has a sworn promise/duty to kill him, because her parents, one of them being his own child, wouldnt willingly stay with him as he completely hollowed out like a good child would.


I think Holy Knigh Hodrick is easily overlooked, as its symbolism for how society treats their elderly these days, they start losing thier mind and they get thrown in a home to die alone, when al they want is their family to be with them as they die.

[Doc Vivor]

Originally posted by zXr:

Have we forgotten Holy Knight Hodrick?

Best guy out there, escaped his wife, who is the MOST EVIL INCARANTE of all the soul series, and tried to help those being Hollowed, have some shred of purpose and family as they they lost their last shreds of sanity. Lets not forget how his grandaughter has a sworn promise/duty to kill him, because her parents, one of them being his own child, wouldnt willingly stay with him as he completely hollowed out like a good child would.


I think Holy Knigh Hodrick is easily overlooked, as its symbolism for how society treats their elderly these days, they start losing thier mind and they get thrown in a home to die alone, when al they want is their family to be with them as they die.

Nobody would stay with a hollowed because they tend to kill everyone, they can't be cured usualy and reanimate themself after you kill them. Thinking that way Sirris quest to kill her grandad was pretty pointless
Edit: Also hodricks hobby was to kill people and cut out their bones, how heroic

[zXr]

Originally posted by Vivor:

Originally posted by zXr:

Have we forgotten Holy Knight Hodrick?

Best guy out there, escaped his wife, who is the MOST EVIL INCARANTE of all the soul series, and tried to help those being Hollowed, have some shred of purpose and family as they they lost their last shreds of sanity. Lets not forget how his grandaughter has a sworn promise/duty to kill him, because her parents, one of them being his own child, wouldnt willingly stay with him as he completely hollowed out like a good child would.


I think Holy Knigh Hodrick is easily overlooked, as its symbolism for how society treats their elderly these days, they start losing thier mind and they get thrown in a home to die alone, when al they want is their family to be with them as they die.

Nobody would stay with a hollowed because they tend to kill everyone, they can't be cured usualy and reanimate themself after you kill them. Thinking that way Sirris quest to kill her grandad was pretty pointless

But thats the point, why DO they kill everyone? its because they are lonely and banished away to die? in a prison (DS1). IF their families didnt push them away to begin with, and just accepted their undead mark/hollowing their would have never been this big misunderstanding to begin with...

[Doc Vivor]

Originally posted by zXr:

Originally posted by Vivor:

Nobody would stay with a hollowed because they tend to kill everyone, they can't be cured usualy and reanimate themself after you kill them. Thinking that way Sirris quest to kill her grandad was pretty pointless

But thats the point, why DO they kill everyone? its because they are lonely and banished away to die? in a prison (DS1). IF their families didnt push them away to begin with, and just accepted their undead mark/hollowing their would have never been this big misunderstanding to begin with...

Its not a big understanding, undead are time bombs that can turn hollow for minor reasons. And when somebody turns hollow you cant get rid of him. Not every undead may became hollow but not every undead has enough willpower to stop it. These people are not neccessary evil but what they will become is