Interesting speculation for gwyn family connections *spoilers!!!!*

[Fluff N' Stuff]

So going through alot of the lore some things kinda hit me, we never found anything telling of gwyns queen really. noting theres a good chance she was removed from history aswell.

but with the surfacing of Yorshka it brings up an interesting theory she's very close to priscilla. I'm thinking priscilla was the queen, it would make sense. taking a pungent square into account shes half-deity / half-dragon. so children wise with gwyn they have a chance at not taking any dragon or some. aka gwyndolin having snakes, and yorshka being part dragon nearing priscilla obviously. another interesting note is the nameless kings connection with his could note how he got such a connection. some other notable things would be priscilla initially having a second phase to the fight where theres a room below the boss area, but was removed. could be where she hid yorshka, also makes sense who was really in hiding. i have true belief yorshka was the one who was hid in the painted world, priscilla just stayed with her noting shes very young in DS1, sense she looks like shes barely 18 in 3, it makes what priscilla says when you encounter her (priscilla) make a bit more meaning if the priests of velka and stuff almost protected yorshka. also aldrich dreamed of a "pale young girl in hiding." not stated as adult or a name. which is why I believe the painted world was for yorshka, not necessaily priscilla.

the parentage of priscilla is a bit interesting, there's good note her mother was velka. considering all the priests and things found in the painted world, and her noting of the people. (would make sense if they respected her as they prayed for velka for absolution of their sins or what abominations they are. considering she forgave all)

Here's where there's two possibilities. priscilla is either seeths sister who was married to gwyn for the sake of cementing the trust to turn on the dragons. also noting hes part deity which is why he was both the only non-scaled dragon, and more so why he would want to ally with gwyn. *also noting here he had a piece of the lord soul. which i do find a bit more notable towards deities than the dragons. this is a bit more of a grain of salt but i actually wonder lore wise if a "true" dragon could hold a lord flame?*
or velka and seeth are priscillas parentage but i personally have less belief in this with the way the other one flows for both timing, and the mixture of the era ideals, and it explains why seeth was the only different dragon.
Velka being the goddess of sin seems very likely to have a taboo affair with a dragon.

also noting a bit more gwyndolin has always had a higher affinity for magic, making me truly believe hes seeths nephew with the amount of power he possess magically. and his affinity for the moonlight (moonlight greatsword being associated with seeth)
and the moonlight / pale / albino theme running through. also look at hands. there not normal. there morelike claws.

and another interesting note, I believe gwynevere / rosaria being the same. I think the prince lothric / lorian the reason there cursed, has to do with gwyndolin and gywnevere trying something. its extremely notable the same voice actor is used for lothric. but also that he looks alot like gwyndolin * THE HANDS lol*. making me truly believe his sickness was brought on by whatever happened with there trying to create the heir.
VERY notable gwyndolin has snakes, gwynevere is the "goddess of fertility" and symbolism for the snake is to accompy fertility. it is another sign. i have a feeling he sacrificed some kinda goddom / his lower body or something for the ritual. hence how aldrich got him.
and also could explain which child cut rosaria's tongue out.


Anywho this is my interesting speculation onto the family tree of gwyn. feel free to agree / disagree im stuck on it though :P it made me have an orgasm looking at alot of the evidence <3 love speculating ds lore best part of the game for me haha.

on a side note i find it very cool if you look at boss souls the light is always within a circle... the circle I believe being the dark sign. thought it was cute, it looks like the dark sign embering out.

[Fluff N' Stuff]

another interesting note, is oceiros and ocelotte. i think gwynevere was able to get him? away from oceiros due to gwyndolins help. if he had made an aural distraction ring or something it could very well explain why there is no baby though it sounds like there is and how she was able to run.

[Rinera]

Just a few notes:

-Claiming any age doesn't really do anything. What she looks like isn't what she really is or even if her aging process is the same as others.

-The Peculiar Doll required to enter the Painting talks of a person that thought of herself as an abomination. Yorshka never mentions of herself as somebody who was hidding or speaks like she doesn't belong. Boreal Valley even has a church dedicated to Yorshka and the only place that has been destroyed, hinting that it was most likely done by Sulyvanh after he got control of the city.

Keeping that in mind, if Priscilla wanted to be a Queen and represent "the Dragons" in a good way then why would she exile herself?

-Yorshka recognises Gwyn as her father and Gwyndolin as her brother. That makes Priscilla an obvious relative given the similarities, even possibly Yorshka's older sister.

-Gwynevere is the goddess of fertility and Rosaria is the goddess of rebirth. Those are two different things. On top of that, Rosaria never talks again, even if you bring her soul back. As we see in Dark Souls 1, the act of returning a soul to its body regenerates at least the tongue. You'd think that she'd at least thank you for your royalty to her if she really was Gwynevere, a person use to be worshipped and recognised as nobility.

With that said though, there are hints regarding Rosaria's influence around the world. Specifically one dead slug-man at Boreal Valley and one very alive in Grand Archives. BOTH of them hidding from view. Whoever Rosaria is, she clearly is out for blood and sending spies and assassins, like Rosaria's Fingers, to do her dirtywork.

-We don't know who Ariamis, the creator of the Painted World is. Who could have enough power to create a world just by thinking about it and how did people enter it? Somebody with an ability like that might even be able to create "fake life" in the painting. All of it might have been "technically" fake, as in no Priscilla.

[Shiny Bidoof]

thats actually a pretty cool theory

[Fluff N' Stuff]

1. im not stating she is an age, just shes younger than the rest, that holds a bit of value. numbers are not what im talking about.

2. sure it could have been priscilla's initially, and passed down. as i said in the world of one if yorshka is priscillas child she would be very young at the time.

also She was NEVER given a name by her parents, and it does basically state she was left alone if you read the chime it states "gwyndolin gave her this chime and a name it must have done much to soothe her loneliness" thats a pretty good statement for hiding.
Yes she has the church but that was way later. it was never in one it was way after, she was never mentioned. solaire was annaled, gwyndolin was keeping illuisionary anor londo up. gwynevere went away now we know for what. but yorshka was not brought up til basically around the time sulyvahn and gwyndolin met. thats hiding/being struck from the books. gwyndolin gave her the credibility with the name.

also gwyndolin had very intricate knowledge of the lifehunt scythe if aldrich pulled it from him while devouring him. that implys strongly more of a connection between gwyndolin and yorshka / and priscilla. which i cant think priscilla as gwyndolins sister and yorshkas since they never state anything of the sort. but yorshka does claim sistership. its TOO notable.

i personally think the spell is from yorshka considering its not the real scythe and its more of a spell recreatement, but thats totally a personal opinion.

i personally think aldrich found the whole "nito sword tip" thing from his devouring of men just because its similar, but moreso to the miracle than the sword. which he was a cleric so it seems possible he found his own.

you assumed she wanted to represent the dragons i never said that, i said her marriage to gwyn would be the cementing of an oath.
and the exile, was both a hiding the fact the queen was dragon, and hiding yorshka as shes the true link between gwyn and the dragons he fought. so i mean it would be a bit touchy to have a queen of a dragon.

and yes priscilla is an obvious relative that we have always known, its just we never thought she could be the queen until three dropped some lore bombs. in one back when it was popularly speculated she was gwyneveres child with seeth. but it makes less sense with three and more she was the queen with the bringing of yorshka.

[Rinera]

Hm. I should have paid attention to the Chime more. I completely forgot about it. I do wonder though... if Priscilla was with Yorshka and Priscilla was her mother... how come she didn't name Yorshka?

One thing a mother would do for her daughter is to give her a name. Another thing is that EVEN upon death, Priscilla never mentions Yorshka. If she existed at that time, Prisciila would have mentioned something along the lines of "I'm... sorry" or something like that.

From my point of view, there are two possible scenarios:

1) Priscilla is really her mother, somehow created her while in the Painting and sent her outside where Gwyndolin found her and named her Yorshka, telling her they are siblings. However, Yorshka was still lonely, since, like her mother, didn't feel like she belonged. This keeps the idea that Priscilla as her mother, why the Chime is so important and how come she exists now and not in Dark Souls 1.

2) Yorshka IS Priscilla. If we concider that we know very little about the Painting, Yorshka having certain powers on her disposal could have entered the Painting and created a world just to play. Eventually, she got out but lost her memory in the process as she stayed in there for far too long. Think of it as Narnia and how at the end of the movie the heroes go out and remain their young age since time flaws by differently inside and outside the painting. Then again, Gwyndolin found her. This also would explain why Priscilla thinks of the creatures inside the Painting as "kind", even if they would murder you on sight.

I think the biggest mystery here is... who is Ariamis and how come he/she created that world? And who did that doll really belong to?

[Fluff N' Stuff]

i cant think yorshka left the painted world, she's never mentioned ever except when we find her for three.
there would be something if she had left the painted world by the end of 1. someone to see her, some vague reference but there isn't so its hard to believe that.

and actually priscilla does say "When killed
Ahh…
But, why… What seeketh thee?"
making a vague enough reference that she could think we may be looking for the unnamed daughter

i think the lack of name comes from gwyn not giving her one, and priscilla wanted to know what he wanted to name her. // he didnt want to as she was a stain. and if priscilla does die by the end of one, leaving yorshka alone in the painted world until gwyndolin comes along with a hand. it makes sense, no one else would have known about her.

i honestly cant even on 2. i think "a world just to play. " is a bit closer to it. i think the abominations did both. protect and play with her over the time. but honestly there is some evidence that we in the first one virtually cleared the painted world but never found her. hence why i think she was alone for so long.

"When she kills the player
Why could thou not let us be?
Didst thou not see why Ariamis created this world?"

US. if yorshka is involved the whole we us thing makes a bigger impact, regardless if she IS mentioning yorshka in this though it does show priscilla did think almost queenly of the people. still notable


though your question does make me wonder, could ariamis be the dragon half of priscillas hertitage? or is ariamis a high priest to velka? id want to assume, if it was a place to save the beings considered abominations and heretics

[Rinera]

Hm... one thing that does kind of make sense in what you say is Gwyndolin himself going after Yorshka.

Gwyn is no more and if Gwynevere is real she is no where to be found, leaving Gwyndolin the one and only ruler of Anor Londo. Seen as he is also something of a hybrid himself, he might have wanted Priscilla and/or Yorshka back, so he went after them and welcomed Yorshka and introducing her to the citizens, seen as she has her own Church.

Perhpas Priscilla didn't want to leave the place, but let her daughter follow her brother for a... better future... maybe? The Painting is essentially for "freaks", hence why she would rather see her daughter escape.

Thing is that it's rather weird Yorshka never mentions her mother. Should you kill Yorshka, she says something along the lines of "Forgive me, brother." I guess due to her failure of being a good Darkmoon leader. It just makes you wonder whether she really has a mother or if somebody created her.

Another thing that I noticed is that she mentions Gwyn as "father", but calling somebody father doesn't neccessarly point parenthood. A father could be a creator of a nation, or a leader of a certain group. Same goes for "brother". She might have though of Gwyndolin as a brother but not him actually being her real brother.

I do wonder how Gwyndolin had a powerful enough connection with the unique to Priscilla Life-Hunt ability that Aldrich was able to manifest the Scythe, but one thing at a time I guess.

Most importantly though, we do not have access to the Painting, even just to see it. It is no where in Anor Londo, the whole accessible Irithyll or even down in the Dungeon and the whole Boreal Valley has transformed from a warm looking city to an icy field, similar to the Painting. You'd think that Sulyvanh would have went after it to increase his strenght...

Oh well, DLC I guess.

[Hunubul]

Gwynevere is most likely dead, she most likely were the queen of Lothric.

That being said she had lot's of daughters. Rosaria was most likely one of them, and Gertrude too. Gertrude was a tragic test subject, causing the curse of the Twin Princes. I don't know of any other heavenly kids she might have had tho (except for the twin princes and ocelotte who is dead most likely).

EDIT: Some speculate that the queen was a sister to Rosaria, thus a DAUGHTER to Gwynevere. That's entirely possible.

[Rinera]

Originally posted by Ponion:

Gwynevere is most likely dead, she most likely were the queen of Lothric.

That being said she had lot's of daughters. Rosaria was most likely one of them, and Gertrude too. Gertrude was a tragic test subject, causing the curse of the Twin Princes. I don't know of any other heavenly kids she might have had tho (except for the twin princes and ocelotte who is dead most likely).

EDIT: Some speculate that the queen was a sister to Rosaria, thus a DAUGHTER to Gwynevere. That's entirely possible.

Interesting point of view. I guess that since Lothric needed a new King and Queen, should Gwynevere be real, she would be the one to take the the throne. The "timeline" also allows for that, seen as Ocelotte is the youngest and last child and she runs away with him afterwards, just as Oceiros had become corrupted.

[Fluff N' Stuff]

im still stuck on what i said up there

"and another interesting note, I believe gwynevere / rosaria being the same. I think the prince lothric / lorian the reason there cursed, has to do with gwyndolin and gywnevere trying something. its extremely notable the same voice actor is used for lothric. but also that he looks alot like gwyndolin * THE HANDS lol*. making me truly believe his sickness was brought on by whatever happened with there trying to create the heir.
VERY notable gwyndolin has snakes, gwynevere is the "goddess of fertility" and symbolism for the snake is to accompy fertility. it is another sign. i have a feeling he sacrificed some kinda goddom / his lower body or something for the ritual. hence how aldrich got him.
and also could explain which child cut rosaria's tongue out."

yes shes the goddess of rebirth, if gwyndolin and her tried a weird incestual ritual or something and ♥♥♥♥ backfired, its very likely. especially since gwyndolin ended up sick. maybe they did some ritual to try and pass enough of there deity status and it ended up as the twins. but lothric and gwyndolin are notably similar. such as gwynevere and rosaria

im not sure there curse and gertrude are of the same, since i thought the curse was about there birth?

[Rinera]

Originally posted by Fluff N' Stuff:

im still stuck on what i said up there

"and another interesting note, I believe gwynevere / rosaria being the same. I think the prince lothric / lorian the reason there cursed, has to do with gwyndolin and gywnevere trying something. its extremely notable the same voice actor is used for lothric. but also that he looks alot like gwyndolin * THE HANDS lol*. making me truly believe his sickness was brought on by whatever happened with there trying to create the heir.
VERY notable gwyndolin has snakes, gwynevere is the "goddess of fertility" and symbolism for the snake is to accompy fertility. it is another sign. i have a feeling he sacrificed some kinda goddom / his lower body or something for the ritual. hence how aldrich got him.
and also could explain which child cut rosaria's tongue out."

yes shes the goddess of rebirth, if gwyndolin and her tried a weird incestual ritual or something and ♥♥♥♥ backfired, its very likely. especially since gwyndolin ended up sick. maybe they did some ritual to try and pass enough of there deity status and it ended up as the twins. but lothric and gwyndolin are notably similar. such as gwynevere and rosaria

im not sure there curse and gertrude are of the same, since i thought the curse was about there birth?

I still think that makes little sense. Like.. why would Rosaria be at the Cathedral if she is Gwynevere and Gwynevere being the Lothric Queen? And she also supposedly has Ocelotte with her, a supposed child of Dragons or something close to a scaleless Dragon. But Rosaria has this slug she always keeps around, possibly not being the same one every time as she seems like she is growing them.

[Fluff N' Stuff]

think one of the dlc will deal with ocelotte, she did run and if she ran she would hide, pontiff made his motives pretty clear. oceiros is consumed, and gwynevere after four kids, very likely dealing with a curse herself at this point. read hidden blessing, and divine blessing it tells the story

[Rinera]

Originally posted by Fluff N' Stuff:

think one of the dlc will deal with ocelotte, she did run and if she ran she would hide, pontiff made his motives pretty clear. oceiros is consumed, and gwynevere after four kids, very likely dealing with a curse herself at this point. read hidden blessing, and divine blessing it tells the story

Yeah, I am aware, that's why I said Ocelotte should be with her, seen as Oceiros is so obsessed with him, he is no where and the Queen run away at the same time. Now that I read them again, it is only implied that she took Ocelotte, not directly mentioned.

Well, the DLC has like... A LOT to cover. Especailly concidering that this might be the last Dark Souls game so they'd want to wrap things up.

[Fluff N' Stuff]

yuup, 2 DLC one in fall and one in january

[evil_apai]

my speculation is:
Gwyn + Priscilla = NamelessKing, Gwynevere, Gwyndolin, Yorshka

Gwynevere + Flan = Heavenly Childs (Getrude, Dancer of Boreal Valley, Rosaria)

Oceiros(Oce) + Shanalotte(Lotte) = Childs born of dragon (Ocelotte, ???)