What are the untended graves

[FreshPrinceOfPine]

I was curious about this area from the first time i realized it was just a dark version of firelink. Why is it the same place. Why is gundir normal in the dark place and have the pus of man in the starting area. Why is there a shrine handmaiden in the dark firelink. We need vaati

[The Everlasting Stillness ☯]

Originally posted by Ranfle:

Originally posted by Ludleth:

Untended Graves make zero sense, because they're not in a separate "plane" like Firelink is and are instead connected to the Consumed King's Garden.

People have been saying that Cementery and the Graves are geographically in the same place, although I don't know if it's true

The game treats it as the same place, and if you leave a message in Dark Firelink, it pops up in real Firelink and vice versa. That only causes more confusion, though.

[Vahvi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5mHuSFRzZM

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Ludleth:

Originally posted by Ranfle:

People have been saying that Cementery and the Graves are geographically in the same place, although I don't know if it's true

The game treats it as the same place, and if you leave a message in Dark Firelink, it pops up in real Firelink and vice versa. That only causes more confusion, though.

Well, it does give credence to the time travel theory though.

[Vahvi]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by Ludleth:

The game treats it as the same place, and if you leave a message in Dark Firelink, it pops up in real Firelink and vice versa. That only causes more confusion, though.

Well, it does give credence to the time travel theory though.

already been proven that it's back in time.

[Burusagi]

Also, Gundyr's Soul (or was it his armour set?) mentions how he failed because he was defeated by an unknown warrior (i.e your character) and failed his quest.

So just to rub it in his face, you actually kick his butt -twice-. No wonder he is so mad at your newly created character that he instantly attacks you after you "free" him!

[The Everlasting Stillness ☯]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by Ludleth:

The game treats it as the same place, and if you leave a message in Dark Firelink, it pops up in real Firelink and vice versa. That only causes more confusion, though.

Well, it does give credence to the time travel theory though.

I don't think it does. That's another lame copout. What time travel? You legitimately take a few steps to go to Untended Graves.

I would say that Firelink Shrine with the Iudex, Ludleth, and the FIrekeeper, is a sort of "haven", like Hunter's Dream, created for the Unkindled to rest and recuperate, and it's removed from "reality" basically, somehow, because as far as I recall, the sky never changes in that area. It seems like it's a sort of "purgatory", not that there's any time travel involved. It's a fake made to recreate comfort and give some semblance of hope to those who would Link the Flame, I think, is more plausible, and Untended Graves is the harsh reality and a warning of what would happen if the Fire isn't linked. That doesn't explain why only that area there is in an Age of Dark, though... At least Firelink isn't connected to anything. UG is. If they were going for something like Giant Lord/Last Giant, then I get what they were trying to do, but it doesn't really make sense. How is that one specific spot in the past? At least the Giant Lord story actually had you go back to the past in some manner, so it wasn't a paradox, and it made sense for him to be REALLY pisssed off at you. Gundyr is just sitting there as a scabbard, but by whom was he tasked this duty with? Why is there a Coiled Sword in him? Did the SoC punish him for failing to Link the Flame with this?

[Vahvi]

In the untended graves

- Your grave still has a body in it because you haven't awoken yet.
- Gundyr looks helluh pristine
- If you speak to the handmaiden in untended graves before you speak to her in firelink shrine she slips up and almost refers to you as the person (you) who she met back in time.

As for it being connected, I sum it up to Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey stuff.

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Ludleth:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Well, it does give credence to the time travel theory though.

I don't think it does. That's another lame copout. What time travel? You legitimately take a few steps to go to Untended Graves.

I would say that Firelink Shrine with the Iudex, Ludleth, and the FIrekeeper, is a sort of "haven", like Hunter's Dream, created for the Unkindled to rest and recuperate, and it's removed from "reality" basically, somehow, because as far as I recall, the sky never changes in that area. It seems like it's a sort of "purgatory", not that there's any time travel involved. It's a fake made to recreate comfort and give some semblance of hope to those who would Link the Flame, I think, is more plausible, and Untended Graves is the harsh reality and a warning of what would happen if the Fire isn't linked. That doesn't explain why only that area there is in an Age of Dark, though... At least Firelink isn't connected to anything. UG is. If they were going for something like Giant Lord/Last Giant, then I get what they were trying to do, but it doesn't really make sense. How is that one specific spot in the past? At least the Giant Lord story actually had you go back to the past in some manner, so it wasn't a paradox, and it made sense for him to be REALLY pisssed off at you. Gundyr is just sitting there as a scabbard, but by whom was he tasked this duty with? Why is there a Coiled Sword in him? Did the SoC punish him for failing to Link the Flame with this?

Look, you know how Dark Souls lore is. It is illogical. But within the illogic of it, it is logical to conclude that it is indeed time travel.

[The Everlasting Stillness ☯]

Originally posted by Vahvi:

In the untended graves

- Your grave still has a body in it so you haven't awoken yet.
- Gundyr looks helluh pristine
- If you speak the the hand maiden in untended graves before you speak to her in firelink shrine she slips up and almost refers to you as the person (you) who she met back in time.

This is true (except the first part, never noticed that and it could very well be some other Unkindled, not you), but it still doesn't make any sense how falling 3 feet causes you to travel back in time to an Age of Dark, which is the problem. If there were at least some transition, like a warp, it would be way less jarring, and could actually be explained. As it is, it's just stupid.

[Yian Yan]

Originally posted by Ludleth:

Originally posted by Vahvi:

In the untended graves

- Your grave still has a body in it so you haven't awoken yet.
- Gundyr looks helluh pristine
- If you speak the the hand maiden in untended graves before you speak to her in firelink shrine she slips up and almost refers to you as the person (you) who she met back in time.

This is true (except the first part, never noticed that), but it still doesn't make any sense how falling 3 feet causes you to travel back in time to an Age of Dark, which is the problem. If there were at least some transition, like a warp, it would be way less jarring, and could actually be explained. As it is, it's just stupid.

You only get to Lothric by warping from Firelink. Who says that that fall was when you went back in time?

[The Everlasting Stillness ☯]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Look, you know how Dark Souls lore is. It is illogical. But within the illogic of it, it is logical to conclude that it is indeed time travel.

Most of the illogical parts of the lore come from 3, because it either contradicts, retcons, or just refuses to properly explain various points. I never had a problem grasping, timelining, piecing the lore in the other games, and it ways that made sense. In 3, you have to take these huge leaps and reach really hard to make it work.

[Vahvi]

Originally posted by Yian Yan:

Originally posted by Ludleth:

This is true (except the first part, never noticed that), but it still doesn't make any sense how falling 3 feet causes you to travel back in time to an Age of Dark, which is the problem. If there were at least some transition, like a warp, it would be way less jarring, and could actually be explained. As it is, it's just stupid.

You only get to Lothric by warping from Firelink. Who says that that fall was when you went back in time?

WIBBLY WOBBLY TIMEY WIMEY STUFF

[The Everlasting Stillness ☯]

Originally posted by Yian Yan:

Originally posted by Ludleth:

This is true (except the first part, never noticed that), but it still doesn't make any sense how falling 3 feet causes you to travel back in time to an Age of Dark, which is the problem. If there were at least some transition, like a warp, it would be way less jarring, and could actually be explained. As it is, it's just stupid.

You only get to Lothric by warping from Firelink. Who says that that fall was when you went back in time?

SO when DID you go back in time? After defeating Oceiros, there is no loading screen, no warp, no nothing to indicate that the invisible wall near him is somehow a magical time travel device.

[Mr. Kitty Saves The World]

When I found it, I was pretty mind-boggled by the implications. My mind was flying with all kinds of ideas about how and what the Untended Graves were, and what they meant story-wise.
I reached the conclusion that it was something like a Doomed Timeline, kinda like the ones from Homestuck, where something ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up somewhere and that particular 'story' wasn't able to continue, so a different timeline became the 'alpha' timeline (ours).
Looking out past the bonfire that teleports you to the Lord of Cinder boss fight, you see a lot of ruined, very similar structures, almost like they're the same ones repeated over and over from all different points in time, like it's all played out countless times before, which we know does happen in the Dark Souls universe; the flame fades, the curse returns, an Undead links the fire, and everything repeats some unknowable amount of years down the line.
Made me wonder if it's implying every playthrough is somehow canon via some complicated parallel timeline multiverse bullhunky that hurts my brain to think about.
They've mentioned many times some ambiguous stuff about time being transient and convoluted in the Dark Souls universe, shifting and overlapping in places, so maybe.
Honestly, I'm not the best person for theories about this stuff. Anything involving time shenanigans completely ♥♥♥♥♥ my brain the wrong way and I get really confused.

[Elemental Phoenix]

My personal theory is that we're from the future going back to a world that is prevaded by the age of dark to get the cinders of the lords long past. The reason I believe this is because A: Ludix is already defeated in our time, B: The Lord of Cinder mentioned he was there and 'Willed himself Lord' to link the fire, C: Our body is freaking still there, and finally D: We can walk to the untended graves but not normal firelink. The only hole here is that it says that the bell will never toll in the untended grave.