LORE- Questions about The Profaned Flame versus The First Flame and the Age of Dark

[Nyarlathotep]

Now, it's common knowledge that the Profaned Flame is eternal. What does that mean for the fading of the First flame? Can the age of dark even happen if there is still one flame that stands in its way, or will the Profaned Flame's abyssal nature have no effect on the fate of the world?

This is a small detail that no one really seemed to acknowledge, and the Profaned Flame's ties with the abyss bring up a whole new discussion.

[Serrassi Effect]

im no lore guru, but wasn't the profaned flame created from Yhorm linking the fire?

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Is it tied with the Abyss? It seems to be an almost unhealthy fire, a cursed fire that mangled the entire capital and its inhabitants. It's not the same as the First Flame, as it obviously was created after it (hence the first).

I figured it was some weird off shoot of pyromancy and sorcery.

[Mr. Kitty Saves The World]

I thought the Profaned Flame was this game's name for the Flames of Chaos.
In Dark Souls 2, it was 'The Old Chaos'. I figured the Profaned Flame was the same thing, and they just changed the name again.
I mean, the chaos IS a profane flame; it's a failed attempt at linking the fire that went haywire, and if you consider the flame to be the sort of 'holy' symbol of Dark Souls' universe, then desecrating that with a bastardization gone wild is a pretty profane thing to do.

[Serrassi Effect]

But the chaos flame is apparently dead in dark souls 3, which is why demons are dying.

[Myrmuz [IRL]]

There isn't enough information. From what I can remember it burnt everybody in the profaned capital except the jailers, the handmaids and yhorm. There are bowls and vessels all over the place there, it gives you the impression that the undead were gorging themselves on the flame to excess and got some sort of karmic punishment.
But there are those giant hand-ogre-babies in that 1 area so maybe it was mutating stuff as well.

[Richard the Treacherous]

Considering profane means "treat (something sacred) with irreverence or disrespect.", it might be a part of the First Flame (this is a complete guess, it's probably from somewhere else) that Sulyvahn abused to gain enough power to help Aldrich get an Age of the Deep set up or whatever he's doing. That or the people who found it abused the power it had to the point that they were struck down when Yhrom linked the flame, considering they were the only ones harmed by it and that the kingdom seems to be fairly greedy based on the volume of coins that increase item drops you pick up there and the piles of what look like gold and sliver trinkets.

Първоначално публикувано от Serrassi off her meds:

But the chaos flame is apparently dead in dark souls 3, which is why demons are dying.

The CF died with the Bed of Chaos, and from what I understand, Sulyvahn found the Profaned Flame and it convinced him to do all of the things he's done up until you kill him.

[Mr. Kitty Saves The World]

Why is the Chaos Flame dying/dead, though?
It can't be because the Bed of ♥♥♥♥♥ is dead, because the flames of chaos are still burning in Dark Souls 2, in Eleum Loyce. If killing the bed kills the flame, it wouldn't have been around in Dark Souls 2, which takes place an unknowably long amount of time after Dark Souls 1. It would have burned out by then.

[Nyarlathotep]

Първоначално публикувано от William See:

Is it tied with the Abyss? It seems to be an almost unhealthy fire, a cursed fire that mangled the entire capital and its inhabitants. It's not the same as the First Flame, as it obviously was created after it (hence the first).

I figured it was some weird off shoot of pyromancy and sorcery.

Andre claims to see the Abyss in Profaned Coal. Which, even though it is on fire, is covered in ice. So maybe it doesn't even give off heat?

The Chaos Flame has died/is dying, hence the almost extinct demon population.

The Profaned Flame is the reason why Yhorm became a lord of cinder, to put it out (Which doesnt make too much sense, to fight fire with fire) The only instance of the Profaned Flame burning anyone was when the First Flame was linked by Yhorm, but its debateable that it could have been the first flame seeking humanity. It mostly has some sort of corrupting effect on people, as seen in Pontiff, the sadistic maids tending to the flame and the Jailers.

We can characterize the flame as having abyssal origins, a corrupting power that radiats no heat. But while we will need more information into its origins, what intruiges me is the effect it CAN have on the ending of the game.

Now, DLC2 is supposed to focus on tying up loose ends in the story, but from what it seems almost everyone forgot to ask about this.

I think it can be figured out, but I am not a lore master.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Първоначално публикувано от Mr. Kitty Saves The World:

Why is the Chaos Flame dying/dead, though?
It can't be because the Bed of ♥♥♥♥♥ is dead, because the flames of chaos are still burning in Dark Souls 2, in Eleum Loyce. If killing the bed kills the flame, it wouldn't have been around in Dark Souls 2, which takes place an unknowably long amount of time after Dark Souls 1.

It's been widely accepted that dks2 timelines were extremely weird and plot-holey, so try not to think too hard about the connection between the chaos flame in 2 and 3.

[Mr. Kitty Saves The World]

Първоначално публикувано от William See:

Първоначално публикувано от Mr. Kitty Saves The World:

Why is the Chaos Flame dying/dead, though?
It can't be because the Bed of ♥♥♥♥♥ is dead, because the flames of chaos are still burning in Dark Souls 2, in Eleum Loyce. If killing the bed kills the flame, it wouldn't have been around in Dark Souls 2, which takes place an unknowably long amount of time after Dark Souls 1.

It's been widely accepted that dks2 timelines were extremely weird and plot-holey, so try not to think too hard about the connection between the chaos flame in 2 and 3.

I try very hard to pretend Dark Souls 2 just never happened, but there are things in Dark Souls 3 that force me to acknowledge its existence.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

Tell ya what, wonky lore and weird enemy AI aside, dks2 has some awesome weapon and build diversity. I can see myself going for at least 400 hours before I start to get tired of it.

[Richard the Treacherous]

Първоначално публикувано от Mr. Kitty Saves The World:

Първоначално публикувано от William See:

It's been widely accepted that dks2 timelines were extremely weird and plot-holey, so try not to think too hard about the connection between the chaos flame in 2 and 3.

I try very hard to pretend Dark Souls 2 just never happened, but there are things in Dark Souls 3 that force me to acknowledge its existence.

Considering a lot of the places that are still referenced in 3 that are completely forgotten in 2, I have a feeling that either DaS2 happens far after 3 and has the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ defense of "time is distorted so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ are alright" or the things in 3 that are from 2 are nothing more than references.

[Mr. Kitty Saves The World]

Първоначално публикувано от Bandit:

Първоначално публикувано от Mr. Kitty Saves The World:

I try very hard to pretend Dark Souls 2 just never happened, but there are things in Dark Souls 3 that force me to acknowledge its existence.

Considering a lot of the places that are still referenced in 3 that are completely forgotten in 2, I have a feeling that either DaS2 happens far after 3 and has the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ defense of "time is distorted so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ are alright" or the things in 3 that are from 2 are nothing more than references.

I mean, there's the Drang Knights, so someone's still alive from there. It can't be that long, unless there's some sort of wormhole in the ocean between Drangleic and Lordran and they got time warped 2000 years on the trip over.

[Mr. Kitty Saves The World]

I've never understood what the whole 'time is distorted' thing actually means, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything, and it's just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ catch-all term to explain things that otherwise make no damn sense and are completely impossible.

[Richard the Treacherous]

Първоначално публикувано от Mr. Kitty Saves The World:

Първоначално публикувано от Bandit:

Considering a lot of the places that are still referenced in 3 that are completely forgotten in 2, I have a feeling that either DaS2 happens far after 3 and has the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ defense of "time is distorted so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ are alright" or the things in 3 that are from 2 are nothing more than references.

I mean, there's the Drang Knights, so someone's still alive from there. It can't be that long, unless there's some sort of wormhole in the ocean between Drangleic and Lordran and they got time warped 2000 years on the trip over.

It might be that Drangleic wasn't completely broken in 3, and after you extend the age of fire in 3, it falls apart and you have to deal with it in 2. Although it's entirely possible that Drangleic hasn't built itself up enough to warrant being known outside of a few instances. Granted, whatever happened to Ornstein between the games throws a wrench in it, and if the one in 2 is even the real one.