Dark Souls 3 is not a PVP oriented game. Deal with it.

[Noel]

The Souls series in general never was. The PvP wasn't meant to be fair. It wasn't meant to be balanced. It never tried catering to the '1v1 bow-before you fight' honorable duels. It never tried to emulate competitive e-sports. The co-op and invasion system, as far back as Demon's Souls, was always intended to be complementary to the single-player experience. I can't stress that enough. Multiplayer was always complementary, not integral, to the Souls experience - no matter how hard the hardcore PvP community wants to ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan about it

This is why I cringe whenever I hear players harp on about no poise, R1 spam, or a particular weapon being over or underpowered. I cringe not because I agree or disagree, but because I get the impression that a vocal minority seems to think that Dark Souls, as a game, is nothing but a 1v1 arena e-peen proving ground and that the game ought to cater exclusively to PvP. Newsflash, the Souls series has always been a PVE game with PVP elements, not the other way around.

The series is a PVE game. Why state the obvious? Because the vocal, myopic PvP community - in all its self-aggrandizement, seem to think that Dark Souls 3 should be a sanctioned bloodsport with esoteric, Bushido-esque codes of honor instead of what it's always been: an unforgiving world of limitless cruelty and guile that is always trying to ♥♥♥♥ you over. The PvP amplifies this. It doesn't make it.The joy and satisfaction has always been from rising above seemingly insurmountable odds. There is no honor, no security, no pretentions, it isn't meant to be a level playing field. This is Dark Souls. The PvP mob shouldn't indict a game for not doing something it never even pretended to do.

I'm not saying one can't/shouldn't enjoy PvP, criticize PvP, or play Dark Souls just for the PvP. But don't pitch a fit over a complementary aspect of the game because it didn't cater to your precise needs. Don't expect it to have e-sport levels of intricate player and weapon balance. Don't expect it to be a gentlemen's dueling simulator. I'm sure there are games like that out there and if there aren't - clamor for them to be made instead of throwing a tantrum over Dark Souls not catering to your unique demands.

For discussion's sake, I'm curious to know how many of you guys play just for PvP or just for PvE, or strike a balance between the two. I know how caustic this particular forum can get, but let's try to be civil.

[Offy]

The PVE elements only last so long, the PVP has to be good or else the game has zero longevity.

[Serrassi Effect]

I love the pvp and I have not read OP's post :3

[Penetrator]

Shut up idiot. You dont know what you're talking about.

[Noel]

Escrito originalmente por Officer:

The PVE elements only last so long, the PVP has to be good or else the game has zero longevity.

Which is why I said PvP is complementary to the game. But don't pretend like PvP provides infinite longevity. It get's just as tiresome. Besides, multiplayer isn't a prerequsite for a game to endure.

[Noel]

Escrito originalmente por Serrassi Effect:

I love the pvp and I have not read OP's post :3

I love the PvP as well. Maybe you ought to read before you comment?

[Penetrator]

Dark Souls wont be as popular without the multiplayer. The pve with its multiplayer is what makes a souls game special. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fanboy defending this game ♥♥♥ it is getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on.

[Noel]

Escrito originalmente por MasterBait:

Dark Souls wont be as popular without the multiplayer. The pve with its multiplayer is what makes a souls game special. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fanboy defending this game ♥♥♥ it is getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on.

Your lack of reading comprehension astounds me - that's if you even read my post in its entirety. You may be shocked to know that I agree with you. Like I said, PvP is COMPLEMENTARY to the Souls experience, but not the be all end all.

Dark Souls 3 is a deeply flawed game and has quite rightly deserved to get ♥♥♥♥ on in some regards, but judging it strictly as a PvP game is where the issue is.

[Mini]

PVP is a part of the game, and I really enjoy how they do it with duels, but the main focus has always been PVE. If Dark Souls 1 only had either PVP or PVE, which would you choose? The PVP is really shallow in comparison to the main game itself. It's like the frosting on a cake, a really cool extra thing we got along side the game. I do wish the invasions were better, but that's not the game's focus, so I'm ok with it.

[Cooman]

Escrito originalmente por Noelito:

Escrito originalmente por MasterBait:

Dark Souls wont be as popular without the multiplayer. The pve with its multiplayer is what makes a souls game special. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fanboy defending this game ♥♥♥ it is getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on.

Your lack of reading comprehension astounds me - that's if you even read my post in its entirety. You may be shocked to know that I agree with you. Like I said, PvP is COMPLEMENTARY to the Souls experience, but not the be all end all.

Dark Souls 3 is a deeply flawed game and has quite rightly deserved to get ♥♥♥♥ on in some regards, but judging it strictly as a PvP game is where the issue is.

pvp is a large focus point.

facts stated below

arenas in all dark souls games (25 Oct for ds3)

pure pvp focused area, with pvp only rewards

all covenants are pvp based, meaning you can't get all weapons and spells without pvp

best spell buff in the game (dmb) is pvp based

2 zones dedicated to covenant invasions

npc invasions are there to give pvp like simulations even when in offline mode

weapon balance patches take place due to pvp

a good percentage of Ingame items are pvp only, such as lloyds talismans and duel charms

certain npc questlines require pvp participation, such as Leonhards quest line requires red eye orb invasions.

it's more than complimentary it's a big part of the game.

[Penetrator]

Escrito originalmente por Noelito:

Your lack of reading comprehension astounds me - that's if you even read my post in its entirety. You may be shocked to know that I agree with you. Like I said, PvP is COMPLEMENTARY to the Souls experience, but not the be all end all.

Dark Souls 3 is a deeply flawed game and has quite rightly deserved to get ♥♥♥♥ on in some regards, but judging it strictly as a PvP game is where the issue is.

I am not saying it should be a pvp game but pvp is a very important feature in these games and for them to mess it up so bad in their so-called last souls game is infuriating.
They got it right in DS2 but they messed up in Bloodborne and the same happening again in DS3 is unforgivable. I was disappointed with Bloodborne's pvp but still had hope in DS3 but what I got was a disappointing pve and a horrible pvp.

[Aryend]

Agreed, that doesn't mean multiplayer is not an important part, but like you said it's an addition to the pve. It's an integral part of the souls games and adds longevity, yes, but it never was meant to be a competitive pvp focused game like some people seem to believe, same as coop is not meant for playing through the whole game with a friend rather than to get help with some troublesome area or boss, pvp is not meant to be competitive and balanced rather than spice up the pve.
That said 3 definetly has it's flaws in that respect, I'm not even talking about balance or poise, I'm ok with those for the most part, but matchmaking needs some changes, as an experienced solo host I like beeing invaded, but given that matchmaking now favors hosts with summons that doesn't happen as often as I (and many other peoplr) would like.

[Nitron]

i like both PVP and PVE. but you are wrong about honorable duels. one thing is invading, another is summoning a red.
in the first your are very exposed to ganking and that's normal. it only gets annoying when the host summons phantoms, but it's still ok. the problem is another. dedicated ganking. if i go and place a red sign, i'm asking the host's permission to fight him/ another red. and don't say: "you should excpect that" no. those aren't noobs that need 999999 phantoms to win a decent battle, those are people with some excperience in the game. they are like the people descripted in aldriches rings: "pleasing themselves with their victim screams". they do that just to be annoying. and don't tell me that's okay. the only "good" type of ganking is cosplay ganks. i would love to see less carthus curved swords and more black knights. then everyone has their own opinion. i agree with PVE being the major focus, but PVP was also inportant in the devs eyes. why i say this? simple. the red sign is found in the painted world of ariamis in DS1 with a description which talk about "honorable invaders". the painted world isn't a DLC area. it's in the main game. also except less people getting angry about honor when the DLC hit. there is going to be a PVP arena, so (unless you can heal there ( worst decision possible)) then nobody will complain

[Noel]

Adressing ocoo,
By saying it was complementary, I didn't imply it was a negligible part of the game. The mixture of PvE and PvP amplifies the nature of the game, without a doubt.

But the game, at it's core, is a PvE rpg experience. i don't mean to downplay the PvP by any means.

However, the 'facts stated' can be willingly ignored to progress through the game, especially if you play offline. The core game cannot.

And the weapon balance and arenas implemented are, I would argue, a type of appeasement to the very same attitude I'm criticizing. The arenas in particular, are intented to divorce the honorable, balanced, and fair dueling from the PvE aspect of the game.

[gackie]

Escrito originalmente por Aryend:

Agreed, that doesn't mean multiplayer is not an important part, but like you said it's an addition to the pve. It's an integral part of the souls games and adds longevity, yes, but it never was meant to be a competitive pvp focused game like some people seem to believe, same as coop is not meant for playing through the whole game with a friend rather than to get help with some troublesome area or boss, pvp is not meant to be competitive and balanced rather than spice up the pve.
That said 3 definetly has it's flaws in that respect, I'm not even talking about balance or poise, I'm ok with those for the most part, but matchmaking needs some changes, as an experienced solo host I like beeing invaded, but given that matchmaking now favors hosts with summons that doesn't happen as often as I (and many other peoplr) would like.

Yeah, multiplayer wasn't even advertised in the main DS1 trailer and the game still blew up, disproving it's a pivotal part of the games, they're PvE games with optional PvP content.

[Noel]

I honestly think the over-emphasis on PvP in later games was more of a marketing gimmick Mr.Skeleton. That's my theory. I still pine over the good 'ol days of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.