damage calculation in pvp

[~ Vortex]

Hey guys, is 600 physical damage + resin buff stronger than 500 physical damage + 200 faith buff ? On the same weapon class, same speed/moves, etc (UGS). Which one deals more damage in pvp? (without clutch rings)

[Favkis Nexerade]

If you have 1000 physical damage and 500 lightning damage, there would be final damage of:
1000-damage absorption-percentage reduction. It means like if you have 150 damage absorption and 36% damage reduction, than it would be (1000-150)-36%, which means 544 damage + same for lighting, means (500-150)-36%=224.
While if you would have pure 1500 physical damage, it would be (1500-150)-36%, which is 864.
544+224 = 768 or pure 864. The thing is, you would never find a armor that reduce damage mroe than like 20% and probably enemy is wearign some light armor with good magical defences.

[~ Vortex]

Thanks, makes sense. What about 600phys + resin VS 550phys+200 fth buff? I guess its pretty close in the final numbers?

[Favkis Nexerade]

I don't know how much resin adds, you can try to calculate it by yourself
(damage-damage absorption)-damage reduction = final damage.
For elemental just add it to physical.

[Cooman]

Originally posted by Vort.exe:

Thanks, makes sense. What about 600phys + resin VS 550phys+200 fth buff? I guess its pretty close in the final numbers?

depends on the target defence value. let's say they have 150 flat defence, 10% absorption.

600-150=450-10%=405
resins actually fall BELOW the defence value, and have a mechanic applied so they bypass some of the defence ( to stop attacks reaching 0 damage) but in my testing an average resin adds about 5-10 damage max.

so 415 for 600+resin build.

550-150=400-10%=360
200-150=50-10%=45
so that's 405

typically at endgame, where most players have 140 odd defence, and most spellbuffs like dmb and lightning blade add 240AR, you get around 60-70 points of extra damage via the spell buff per hit. for a 60 point stat investment.

pure damage is always always superior.

[Favkis Nexerade]

Originally posted by ocoo:

pure damage is always always superior.

This. The only reason to use additional damage is buffs (they don't reduce physical damage) and if your enemy is wearing equipment that would decrease damage reduction to -%, like dusk crown that makes -30% damage reduction.

[~ Vortex]

So, if a weapon deals 400 lightning +200 physical? It's just as good except might be worst when opponent wears -%def stuff? + might fall into the -%def trap of clutch rings with those builds yourself?

[~ Vortex]

If this is right, I don't see why some1 would pick elemental for their primary source of damage.

[Cooman]

Originally posted by Nekotrap Favkis:

Originally posted by ocoo:

pure damage is always always superior.

This. The only reason to use additional damage is buffs (they don't reduce physical damage) and if your enemy is wearing equipment that would decrease damage reduction to -%, like dusk crown that makes -30% damage reduction.

more the point of don't invest stats in buffs as the short duration+ possible loss of damage isn't worth it.

there's maybe 3 weapons in the game that might benefit from it?

like sellswords dex+faith using dmb.

but most weapons scale far higher as a quality, or even higher as a hollow infused hyper quality build.

like you could use the Greatsword UGS, and get 550 AR +220 from dmb.

or go hyper quality and get 670 pure physical AR. which will ultimately do far more damage.

Originally posted by Vort.exe:

If this is right, I don't see why some1 would pick elemental for their primary source of damage.

only if you HAVE to, like a chaos infused weapon for pyros. but even then there's better options imo

[~ Vortex]

Agreed, I hope they add more options to elemental weapons in dlc.

[Cooman]

Originally posted by Paradox:

Originally posted by Nekotrap Favkis:

If you have 1000 physical damage and 500 lightning damage, there would be final damage of:
1000-damage absorption-percentage reduction. It means like if you have 150 damage absorption and 36% damage reduction, than it would be (1000-150)-36%, which means 544 damage + same for lighting, means (500-150)-36%=224.
While if you would have pure 1500 physical damage, it would be (1500-150)-36%, which is 864.
544+224 = 768 or pure 864. The thing is, you would never find a armor that reduce damage mroe than like 20% and probably enemy is wearign some light armor with good magical defences.

That's not how flat defense works. Flat defense is more complicated than just subtraction.

Here is the formula (pulled from reddit) to see your apporiximate damage vs flat defense. All you have to do is factor in the enemies aborsptions and you will arrive at actual damage.

A3= AR, B3= Flat Defense : =(IF(B3>A3*8; 0.1*A3; IF(B3>A3; (19.2/49*(A3/B3-0.125)^2+0.1)*A3; IF(B3>A3*0.4; (-0.4/3*(A3/B3-2.5)^2+0.7)*A3; IF(B3>A3*0.125; (-0.8/121*(A3/B3-8)^2+0.9)*A3; A3*0.9)))))

When using multiple sources you will have to calculate the AR and the Flat Defenses (and then aborption too) and Add them all up in the end.

what about the cap for defence/absorption?

as far as I've seen/understood, as absorption levels increase (by wearing heavier armor) the amount you actually get (in stat screen and calculated) decreases. but it also becomes less effective the lower the AR of the attackers.

that's why (against the same target) the fume ugs with say, 630 pure AR will only do 400 per swing, yet a 400 AR straight sword will do 300 per swing?

also why resins that add 90 AR will still add 8-10 damage against a target with 140 flat defence.