estus cancelling?

[76561199120808675]

Hey guys! I've been getting pretty frustrated with estus cancelling clowns lately. Does anyone know how can I counter people who constantly use estus cancels? Thank you in advance!

[Miromett]

One way to kill them consistently is a hornet ring parry, with a chaos infused dagger on a dark infused weapon build.

In general they'll have around 1.5k hp. A hornet ring riposte with a chaos infused dagger on a 30/30 build will deal around 1.2k in damage. So you just need to hit them once or twice with your main hand weapon before you start parry fishing.

The standard Lothric knight straightsword +c.dagger works pretty well.

Once you've popped their tears you should hard swap (from inventory) to a dark infused plow, and just kill them. Or, if you're on top of things a shiv might land.

[hellrazor]

Messaggio originale di Miromett:

One way to kill them consistently is a hornet ring parry, with a chaos infused dagger on a dark infused weapon build.

In general they'll have around 1.5k hp. A hornet ring riposte with a chaos infused dagger on a 30/30 build will deal around 1.2k in damage. So you just need to hit them once or twice with your main hand weapon before you start parry fishing.

The standard Lothric knight straightsword +c.dagger works pretty well.

Once you've popped their tears you should hard swap (from inventory) to a dark infused plow, and just kill them. Or, if you're on top of a things a shiv might land.

hell yeaa

[MARAZM]

Messaggio originale di ressenmacher:

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

Whats wrong with estus cancel tho

*inhales*

Well, for starters it's banned under the online conduct section of the EULA, the same place as cheating (video game cheating, not common definition cheating).

Additionally, it has some serious negative effects on the game. The introduction of Estus Canceling made it easier and more likely that people will consume more of their healing items. This strengthened ganks and twinks, and put players with duped or cheated healing items at an even greater advantage than they were already.

Beyond that, Estus Canceling has a disproportionately heavy effect on larger, slower weapons, as one of their great strengths (the ability to heavily punish poorly timed Estus consumption) has been removed. These weapons were already niche in application and outcompeted in most cases by other options, and making them worse only lowered the variety you'll see in PvP.

Penultimately, Estus Canceling makes the game shallower and invalidates skill. One of the core skillsets and phases of a fight, learning when to heal and conversely how to predict and punish a heal, is gutted. That makes combat simpler, sadly.

Finally, Estus Canceling pushes the game further towards the sort of "glitch meta" that constituted all serious PvP in DS1, where a high level of technical knowledge was needed to compete in PvP at all. Such a system discourages new players and thus shrinks the playerbase over time.

I have never seen people getting banned for anything such as using backups and even using wex dust/honest merchant to begin with and most likely never will, now that we made that clear saying that estus/rkss cancel is banned by EULA will lead it to nothing after all not even devs care about licence now uwu
Also both arguments about ugs nerfs and "requiring technical knowledge" can be answered by adjusting and getting gud . Besides, its not like ugs was anywhere near high tier lately lol

Can't disagree with remaining two arguments; I'll make myself clear tho that i do agree on that being fixed, but at the same time I also disagree on whiners which most of them i can bet cant even glitch consumables at all who barks at those who can and kicking everyone because this is the majority of the game which im definitely certain of judging by my nearly 100% wr in duels lmao . If they want that to stop being a problem they could might as well watch a tutorial on how to do it to play with them on the same level.

tl:dr the counter is to git gud

[76561199120808675]

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

Messaggio originale di ressenmacher:

*inhales*

Well, for starters it's banned under the online conduct section of the EULA, the same place as cheating (video game cheating, not common definition cheating).

Additionally, it has some serious negative effects on the game. The introduction of Estus Canceling made it easier and more likely that people will consume more of their healing items. This strengthened ganks and twinks, and put players with duped or cheated healing items at an even greater advantage than they were already.

Beyond that, Estus Canceling has a disproportionately heavy effect on larger, slower weapons, as one of their great strengths (the ability to heavily punish poorly timed Estus consumption) has been removed. These weapons were already niche in application and outcompeted in most cases by other options, and making them worse only lowered the variety you'll see in PvP.

Penultimately, Estus Canceling makes the game shallower and invalidates skill. One of the core skillsets and phases of a fight, learning when to heal and conversely how to predict and punish a heal, is gutted. That makes combat simpler, sadly.

Finally, Estus Canceling pushes the game further towards the sort of "glitch meta" that constituted all serious PvP in DS1, where a high level of technical knowledge was needed to compete in PvP at all. Such a system discourages new players and thus shrinks the playerbase over time.

I have never seen people getting banned for anything such as using backups and even using wex dust/honest merchant to begin with and most likely never will, now that we made that clear saying that estus/rkss cancel is banned by EULA will lead it to nothing after all not even devs care about licence now uwu
Also both arguments about ugs nerfs and "requiring technical knowledge" can be answered by adjusting and getting gud . Besides, its not like ugs was anywhere near high tier lately lol

Can't disagree with remaining two arguments; I'll make myself clear tho that i do agree on that being fixed, but at the same time I also disagree on whiners which most of them i can bet cant even glitch consumables at all who barks at those who can and kicking everyone because this is the majority of the game which im definitely certain of judging by my nearly 100% wr in duels lmao . If they want that to stop being a problem they could might as well watch a tutorial on how to do it to play with them on the same level.

tl:dr the counter is to git gud

quit being intentionally inflammatory. you're just trolling at this point.

[Omastar]

Messaggio originale di Shifty Thief:

counter? there is no counter to nearly unpunishable estus chug unless you're a pressure god who can play agressive and not get burned while at it, even then they'll most likely perseverance into chug cancel.

You want to fight it you gotta use it yourself. or, y'know, just BC out or ♥♥♥.

Yesterday me and my buds went to pontiff for fun, and having good spacing while maintaining aggression with things like the twinaxes, is VERY effective for utterly destroying cancellers, it works a majority of the time, for me at least.

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

Messaggio originale di ressenmacher:

*inhales*

Well, for starters it's banned under the online conduct section of the EULA, the same place as cheating (video game cheating, not common definition cheating).

Additionally, it has some serious negative effects on the game. The introduction of Estus Canceling made it easier and more likely that people will consume more of their healing items. This strengthened ganks and twinks, and put players with duped or cheated healing items at an even greater advantage than they were already.

Beyond that, Estus Canceling has a disproportionately heavy effect on larger, slower weapons, as one of their great strengths (the ability to heavily punish poorly timed Estus consumption) has been removed. These weapons were already niche in application and outcompeted in most cases by other options, and making them worse only lowered the variety you'll see in PvP.

Penultimately, Estus Canceling makes the game shallower and invalidates skill. One of the core skillsets and phases of a fight, learning when to heal and conversely how to predict and punish a heal, is gutted. That makes combat simpler, sadly.

Finally, Estus Canceling pushes the game further towards the sort of "glitch meta" that constituted all serious PvP in DS1, where a high level of technical knowledge was needed to compete in PvP at all. Such a system discourages new players and thus shrinks the playerbase over time.

I have never seen people getting banned for anything such as using backups and even using wex dust/honest merchant to begin with and most likely never will, now that we made that clear saying that estus/rkss cancel is banned by EULA will lead it to nothing after all not even devs care about licence now uwu
Also both arguments about ugs nerfs and "requiring technical knowledge" can be answered by adjusting and getting gud . Besides, its not like ugs was anywhere near high tier lately lol

Can't disagree with remaining two arguments; I'll make myself clear tho that i do agree on that being fixed, but at the same time I also disagree on whiners which most of them i can bet cant even glitch consumables at all who barks at those who can and kicking everyone because this is the majority of the game which im definitely certain of judging by my nearly 100% wr in duels lmao . If they want that to stop being a problem they could might as well watch a tutorial on how to do it to play with them on the same level.

tl:dr the counter is to git gud

People don't get banned for most cheats as well, I only consider cancellers a minor annoyance as most of the time it just drags on the fight, but still against the EULA
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2365533782

"but at the same time I also disagree on whiners which most of them i can bet cant even glitch consumables at all who barks at those who can"
Are you saying a majority of people complain about it because they can't do it?
I am fairly certain if I spent 1-2 weeks practicing I could learn it, I mean I'm sure most people could if they set their mind to it and practiced hard enough, now I'm not necessarily saying it's easy as I don't do it, but it's not because I can't do it, it's because I'd simply rather not as it turns many fights into a slog.

[bizarre]

git gud

[ressenmacher]

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

I have never seen people getting banned for anything such as using backups and even using wex dust/honest merchant to begin with and most likely never will, now that we made that clear saying that estus/rkss cancel is banned by EULA will lead it to nothing

Whether you get banned or not for EC really doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I think that point's important. The essence of it is that the online conduct section is essentially the rules of the game; if you break those rules, you push the game further towards an "anything goes" meta and contribute to the rise of exploits and malicious cheats.

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

Also both arguments about ugs nerfs and "requiring technical knowledge" can be answered by adjusting and getting gud . Besides, its not like ugs was anywhere near high tier lately lol

UGS (well, the ones with the rolling poke) are actually really solid dueling weapons, and situationally useful in invasions. They'll lose out to the very top-opf-the-line stuff like the PKCS and Murky at high levels of play, but they're viable (i.e. not at a huge disadvantage) against most of the stuff in the game.

I also don't see how "git gud" answers any of the issue. EC contributes to the balance issues in the game. Can you get better and beat it with an UGS? Yeah, sure. But you ought not need to outskill your opponent to a ridiculous degree to achieve that victory, and EC contributes to making that a reality.

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

...but at the same time I also disagree on whiners which most of them i can bet cant even glitch consumables at all who barks at those who can and kicking everyone because this is the majority of the game. If they want that to stop being a problem they could might as well watch a tutorial on how to do it to play with them on the same level.

I don't think that most people who complain about EC are whiners who are complaining because they can't do it. Most people who know enough to even understand what EC is are probably PvP players, and anybody with a bit of time and dedication could learn how to consistently EC. It's not a skill on the level of roll backstabs, all you have to do is learn to time a lock on during a specific point in your animation.

I really do hope that moving forwards into Elden Ring From will support their games over a longer timeframe. That DS3 was allowed to reach this point, where hackers roam unpunished to destroy savefiles and the PvP meta is dominated by glitch abuse, is disgraceful.

[Preacher]

Messaggio originale di PclsN:

Messaggio originale di A Knightly Fellow:

it's glitch abusing. aka cheating.

As long as its not CE its nothing near hacking

Awesome, time to block another cheater

[76561199092470268]

the ugs roll "mixup" is such a meme it aint a solid weapon it stays garbage

[ressenmacher]

Messaggio originale di qaq:

the ugs roll "mixup" is such a meme it aint a solid weapon it stays garbage

There is no meme and it is a mixup. The real problem it has is that it's too limited a style of play, which doesn't matter as much in duels because you aren't facing as wide a range of conditions.

[76561199092470268]

Messaggio originale di ressenmacher:

Messaggio originale di qaq:

the ugs roll "mixup" is such a meme it aint a solid weapon it stays garbage

There is no meme and it is a mixup. The real problem it has is that it's too limited a style of play, which doesn't matter as much in duels because you aren't facing as wide a range of conditions.

How there can be a mixup that can be actually rolled on reaction, this "mixup" been a meme for a long time and it was discovered in a 30 fps console, if you have dead cat reflexes and you cannot roll it then you can just run backwards and roll and you wont be in range!!!
you can also do the roll in and eat r1s for free because u roll in against a pkcs, insane mixups game

[ressenmacher]

Messaggio originale di qaq:

How there can be a mixup that can be actually rolled on reaction, this "mixup" been a meme for a long time and it was discovered in a 30 fps console, if you have dead cat reflexes and you cannot roll it then you can just run backwards and roll and you wont be in range!!!
you can also do the roll in and eat r1s for free because u roll in against a pkcs, insane mixups game

Whoever said mixups need to be unreactable?

Regardless, it seems to be quick enough to catch people, as the video I've linked above demonstrates. Running backwards (and then potentially rolling) is nice...but then you also need to get back in range for your own attack, which puts you at further risk of a trade because your response is delayed.

Finally, why are you bringing the PKCS into this? I've noted before that yes, an UGS doesn't do well against it. So does 99% of everything in the game, again, it's one of the massive outliers like Murky. It feels a little disingenuous to try and argue that "well, since it loses to the second best weapon in the entire game, the UGS roll gamble game is trash."

[76561199092470268]

then whats the point of a mixup then? they are supposed to put you guessing dont they, to be harder to predict? then how is it something that you dont even need to predict a "mixup"

people nowadays just call any sht that randoms panic roll consistently a "mixup", if you outspace their roll "mixup" you can whiff punish them without problem even with a greatsword that is not a problem, ugs themselves are sht weapons but randoms call them solid weapons because theyre used to fight trash players when not even having a single experience of fighting someone that is actually good at this game and no, randoms using pkcs, rkss rc or murky at pontiff aint good players, i know all good players in this game and they already quit or do private fcs with their friends.
I don't see any video but let me guess... Gabri's and Jeenine's video about ultras right?
For last the pkcs comment is a joke that also happens to be true ._.

[76561199092470268]

If you really think Ultras arent sht and the mixup aint a meme, why dont you join the champion ashes mod discord and ask one of the top pvpers in vanilla there and if you dont think theyre actually that good you can always ask them for duels im sure they wont refuse :)

[Edwin VanCleef]

drunkentam fans ?