Snake-tail statue in Friede's boss chamber depicts who?

[Disappointed Father]

You can see it behind the bonfire after defeating the boss, at the end of the room opposite to the entrance. I see messages generally talking of sadness but I've been playing Souls games for years and nothing comes to mind other than Aldrich or Priscilla from DkS1 (but that makes less sense)

[SOLOMON]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

I don't know where you got the idea that I was being an ass. I simply stated what your argument has been thus far, which is "just because." I'm sorry you felt that was disrespectful but I don't see anything substantial with what you've said.

Also, I don't know of any crow-related imagery that links to Velka. Do you have any sources on that? All I've seen are theories about Velka BEING the crow that transports the Chosen Undead at the start of DS1, nothing else crow-related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL0n1S6_VgM

Again, there's nothing actually in the game that links Velka to crows from what I'm seeing. The crow enemies in the Painted World might as well be Corvians- And Corvians are not exclusive to the Painted World. We see them in the woods on the way to Farron Keep and there's one in Irithyll as well. Even though the Corvians outside of the painted world look different, they are still Corvians. "Great scythe of the forlorn souls guided by heretical storytellers. The Mistress of the Painted World is said to wield a great scythe herself." - Great Corvian Scythe

And from the Corvian enemies in the DLC.. "Thrusting sword wielded by Corvian Knights, and a special paired weapon. When twin-handed, brandish four thin-edge blades in the left hand. In their infatuation with Sister Friede, the Corvian Knights swore to protect the painting from fire, and to this end, took to the execution of their own brethren." - Crow Quills

There's also the crow smith in DS2... But.. I don't even want to get into that game's lore..

The theory of The Crow being Velka or a servant of Velka.. there's nothing anywhere relating Velka to crows or crow imagery, text or otherwise. It seems to just be widely accepted fan-canon.



Also- you mentioned the paintings in the room with Freide- you said she had dark hair but from what I can see, there is no hair visible in any of the paintings, just shadows that resemble hair. In fact, in some of them, you can clearly see there is additional cloth under the hood obviously meant to hide the hair. There's also no hair on the doll that can be seen, period- yet, the statue of Velka shows long flowing hair very prominently, and the Velka Talisman in DS1 is a lock of long black hair. Why ommit such a prominent feature of a deity when it's really all we know about her?

Also- may I ask why people think the statue that is being shown in DS1 as a statue of Velka? The one you linked earlier, the one in the video- what makes people say that's Velka? I don't remember anything in game alluding to that.

These are serious questions by the way, I'm not just trying to bust your balls or be a jerk or anything like that, I'm genuinely curious and I can't remember anything specifically pointing to the statue being Velka.

[Phoenix]

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

There are quite a few things that make sense.
Too many to go into right now, maybe later. For now, crows are quite wide and varied in mythology, one in particular is that celtic if memory serves right goddesses were depicted as being able to transform into crows, they are also a symbol of death and ill omen which would make sense for a goddess of sin..not to mention the dark miracles are typically assosiated with Velka, which again considering crows usually depict darkness and evil etc, dark sorceries fit?

That and "The Lords fear her, and everything related to her is locked away in the Painted World of Ariamis.

In Japanese mythology, crows are seen as servants of the gods and are often sent out for divine intervention in the world of mortals. In this vein, it can be surmised that the giant crow that transports the Chosen Undead to Lordran is a servant of some god. And, given Velka's obvious connection to crows it is safe to say that the giant crow serves or is her."

That and it came directly from Miyazaki that the crow people of Ariamis are indeed not covians but worshipers of Velka. Funny how they ended up in the painted world? With a statue of a woman with crows on her who is obviously Velka?

Here from Miyazaki "The crow demons came about during the initial concept stages.

I always thought of the painted world as somewhere where things go to escape, and the bird men but no different. They were originally designed as worshippers of the Goddess Velka whose bodies were warped by their devotion. I think this obsession makes them really interesting characters."

If crows were not assosiated with Velka why are her followers warped into...erm...♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crows? Lol.

[SOLOMON]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

There are quite a few things that make sense.
Too many to go into right now, maybe later. For now, crows are quite wide and varied in mythology, one in particular is that celtic if memory serves right goddesses were depicted as being able to transform into crows, they are also a symbol of death and ill omen which would make sense for a goddess of sin..not to mention the dark miracles are typically assosiated with Velka, which again considering crows usually depict darkness and evil etc, dark sorceries fit?

That and "The Lords fear her, and everything related to her is locked away in the Painted World of Ariamis.

In Japanese mythology, crows are seen as servants of the gods and are often sent out for divine intervention in the world of mortals. In this vein, it can be surmised that the giant crow that transports the Chosen Undead to Lordran is a servant of some god. And, given Velka's obvious connection to crows it is safe to say that the giant crow serves or is her."

That and it came directly from Miyazaki that the crow people of Ariamis are indeed not covians but worshipers of Velka. Funny how they ended up in the painted world? With a statue of a woman with crows on her who is obviously Velka?

Here from Miyazaki "The crow demons came about during the initial concept stages.

I always thought of the painted world as somewhere where things go to escape, and the bird men but no different. They were originally designed as worshippers of the Goddess Velka whose bodies were warped by their devotion. I think this obsession makes them really interesting characters."

If crows were not assosiated with Velka why are her followers warped into...erm...♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crows? Lol.

I'll give you that, then. I maintain though that there's nothing in game referencing Velka to crows, so having not seen Miyazaki himself say that, there was no way for me to know.

Still does not explain away the tail on the doll or lack of long black hair. Seems like two very big details of a deity for one to simply omit. Also is there any reference to Velka wielding a scythe? "The Mistress of the Painted World is said to wield a great scythe herself."

[Phoenix]

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/7force/blog/dark-souls-design-works-translation-creating-the-w/97235/

The translated interview.

Again the crow demons. The painted world was created for imprisoning things dangerous to the gods, Velka included, and the statue in the middle is no doubt her. Literally surrounded by what? You got it crows and crow demons.

Blackness of her hair usually referes to witches connected to either crows or black cats, funny how hair that is black in these types of things usually is referenced to having raven like hair.

Yes no hair is depicted clearly but she is also wearing a hood which guess what? Conceals the head including the hair.

Also http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag102/hey_its_andres/statueinpaintedworld.png

While it could be decay there does seem to be distingushing black marks across her face from the top of the statues head perhaps depicting black hair?

As for the scythe, the gods themselves feared it for it's lifehunt ability and Velka is known for being dangerous to the gods, Priscilla revered Velka, perhaps received the scythe from Velka herself?

Also that quote you gave, I will aree that most likely refereces Priscilla but where does it say it also references the statue?

And also the tail isn't really missed out is it? It simply could be obscured, perhaps Velka hid it under her robes in the presence of mortals to conceal her indentity? And when she was indentified mortal only had robed Velka to depict? The painted world statues perhaps she felt more comfortable around to reveal her more true self and thus that statue in Ariandel

[Nevict]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/7force/blog/dark-souls-design-works-translation-creating-the-w/97235/

The translated interview.

Again the crow demons. The painted world was created for imprisoning things dangerous to the gods, Velka included, and the statue in the middle is no doubt her. Literally surrounded by what? You got it crows and crow demons.

Blackness of her hair usually referes to witches connected to either crows or black cats, funny how hair that is black in these types of things usually is referenced to having raven like hair.

Yes no hair is depicted clearly but she is also wearing a hood which guess what? Conceals the head including the hair.

Also http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag102/hey_its_andres/statueinpaintedworld.png

While it could be decay there does seem to be distingushing black marks across her face from the top of the statues head perhaps depicting black hair?

As for the scythe, the gods themselves feared it for it's lifehunt ability and Velka is known for being dangerous to the gods, Priscilla revered Velka, perhaps received the scythe from Velka herself?

Also that quote you gave, I will aree that most likely refereces Priscilla but where does it say it also references the statue?

And also the tail isn't really missed out is it? It simply could be obscured, perhaps Velka hid it under her robes in the presence of mortals to conceal her indentity? And when she was indentified mortal only had robed Velka to depict? The painted world statues perhaps she felt more comfortable around to reveal her more true self and thus that statue in Ariandel

it also explains why the vow of silence is found in the pained world in DS1

[Phoenix]

"The crow is also a symbol of Velka and many can be seen in the Painted World, where several items and spells related to her can be found. This suggests that Velka has a strong connection to the occult. This is corroborated by Velka's Rapier also being imbued with Occult power."

"In-Game Description

Secret rite of black-haired witch Velka.
Prevents casting of magic within effect area.

Velka, the Goddess of Sin, is a rogue deity,
but she is versed in arts both new and old,
and is considered to have a great range of
influence even as gods are concerned."

Funny enough it is guarded by none other than crow demons..lol

If you still say crows have nothing to do with velka or simply isnt enough evidence to suggest it I will say you are either dishonest or delusional.

[Nevict]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

"The crow is also a symbol of Velka and many can be seen in the Painted World, where several items and spells related to her can be found. This suggests that Velka has a strong connection to the occult. This is corroborated by Velka's Rapier also being imbued with Occult power."

this is true too! oh my god, we may have solved the mystery

[SOLOMON]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

"The crow is also a symbol of Velka and many can be seen in the Painted World, where several items and spells related to her can be found. This suggests that Velka has a strong connection to the occult. This is corroborated by Velka's Rapier also being imbued with Occult power."

"In-Game Description

Secret rite of black-haired witch Velka.
Prevents casting of magic within effect area.

Velka, the Goddess of Sin, is a rogue deity,
but she is versed in arts both new and old,
and is considered to have a great range of
influence even as gods are concerned."

Funny enough it is guarded by none other than crow demons..lol

If you still say crows have nothing to do with velka or simply isnt enough evidence to suggest it I will say you are either dishonest or delusional.

I don't know why you're still going on about that. I had conceded to that point already on the premise of Miyazaki himself saying so.

What I said was, if he had not said that, there WOULD be nothing in game to definitively link crows to Velka. The fact that he DID say what he said, gives credence to the link- which is why I said "I'll give you that."

Thus I am no longer arguing against the Velka - Crow connection. I concede to it.

Also your passive-aggressive snarky tone is noted, but there's no need for it. My questions were of honest ignorance to the design works interviews.

The only thing we're discussing now is the tail and hair- and why neither would be shown together, but there are two explicitly different statues in Dark Souls 3 specifically- the one with the tail you claim is Velka, and the one with the hair and no tail that is actually called, in game, a statue of Velka.

You can make the claim that she hid her tail, but it's complete speculation that she has one at all. You can also make the claim that her hair is completely covered everywhere else BUT the confirmed statue, but that just brings into question why there IS a statue in the real world that shows her hair prominently, and why the games so heavily reference her hair in relation to her- so far as giving you an actual lock of her hair as a talisman. Why hide it everywhere else?

I really don't know. But I remain unconvinced that the effigy in Ariandels room is Velka, which is the entire point of this conversation.

[Phoenix]

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

It was pretty much a given even without the interview, it most likely wouldn't say "Oh if you were wondering crows are definitely Velka's symbols yo"

It was obvious from a Dark Souls view, the items locations/guards/statues with bloody crows on them sin/death etc etc

My tone is based on your early reply, insinuating I was pulling the speculation out of my ass with nothing to back it up despite giving you a lot backing it up and making it out like you had all the evidence in your corner when in fact you have equal if not less than my theory to go on.

The statue after the dlc boss only depicts a snakes tail on a hooded womans body, no hair or anything, given the fact that it looks very nun like and it has what the statue looks like feathers on it similar to that crow hunter in bloodborne, However the feather like appearance can be due to ingame decay or hell even a texture flaw with the game itself but i'm willing to go it was a design choice with perhaps a little decay.

Yes there is a statue depicting velka that is named velka with the hair being displayed, does that mean now all statues must look like that to depict a character? Can they not wear different clothes/styles or hide features such as a hair or tail?

Hell there is one theory out there that Velka is indeed Gwyn's wife which if she did have a snakes tail would explain Gwyndolin's snakes for legs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/606312-dark-souls/74006762?jumpto=3

Fan made theory but it could very well be possible with a little extra thought.

Point is, you have nothing more substantial to say that the snake statue is Priscilla than I do to say it is Velka, neither of us have enough evidence either way however I just am convinced it is Velka.

I will also add that Friede wears a traditionalish nun's outfit and Velka's outfits do typicall go for the traditional "religious" look.
Take the pardoners robes for example.

That and Ariandel whips himself with a flail. "Particularly following the example of the Benedictine monk Peter Damian in the 11th century, flagellation became a form of penance in the Catholic Church and its monastic orders. The 11th-century zealot Dominicus Loricatus repeated the entire Psalter twenty times in one week, accompanying each psalm with a hundred lash-strokes to his back. The distinction of the Flagellants was to take this self-mortification into the cities and other public spaces as a demonstration of piety"

"penance
ˈpɛnəns/Submit
noun
1.
punishment inflicted on oneself as an outward expression of repentance for wrongdoing."

That sounds very sin like to me...again more Velka..

[SOLOMON]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

It was pretty much a given even without the interview, it most likely wouldn't say "Oh if you were wondering crows are definitely Velka's symbols yo"

It was obvious from a Dark Souls view, the items locations/guards/statues with bloody crows on them sin/death etc etc

My tone is based on your early reply, insinuating I was pulling the speculation out of my ass with nothing to back it up despite giving you a lot backing it up and making it out like you had all the evidence in your corner when in fact you have equal if not less than my theory to go on.

The statue after the dlc boss only depicts a snakes tail on a hooded womans body, no hair or anything, given the fact that it looks very nun like and it has what the statue looks like feathers on it similar to that crow hunter in bloodborne, However the feather like appearance can be due to ingame decay or hell even a texture flaw with the game itself but i'm willing to go it was a design choice with perhaps a little decay.

Yes there is a statue depicting velka that is named velka with the hair being displayed, does that mean now all statues must look like that to depict a character? Can they not wear different clothes/styles or hide features such as a hair or tail?

Hell there is one theory out there that Velka is indeed Gwyn's wife which if she did have a snakes tail would explain Gwyndolin's snakes for legs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/606312-dark-souls/74006762?jumpto=3

Fan made theory but it could very well be possible with a little extra thought.

Point is, you have nothing more substantial to say that the snake statue is Priscilla than I do to say it is Velka, neither of us have enough evidence either way however I just am convinced it is Velka.

I will also add that Friede wears a traditionalish nun's outfit and Velka's outfits do typicall go for the traditional "religious" look.
Take the pardoners robes for example.

That and Ariandel whips himself with a flail. "Particularly following the example of the Benedictine monk Peter Damian in the 11th century, flagellation became a form of penance in the Catholic Church and its monastic orders. The 11th-century zealot Dominicus Loricatus repeated the entire Psalter twenty times in one week, accompanying each psalm with a hundred lash-strokes to his back. The distinction of the Flagellants was to take this self-mortification into the cities and other public spaces as a demonstration of piety"

"penance
ˈpɛnəns/Submit
noun
1.
punishment inflicted on oneself as an outward expression of repentance for wrongdoing."

That sounds very sin like to me...again more Velka..

Because you were saying things that are unsubstantiated- for example, Velka could have a tail. I don't understand how you can get mad about me being skeptical of that and then turn around and admittedly and deliberately be a jerk to me when I made it clear my intention wasn't to be offensive- only to point out that you were filling in gaps with an argument that requires a set of massive assumptions to explain the circumstances around its plausibility.

I even agreed that I can't disprove it and that it is plausible, just that I believed otherwise.

But just like you've just stated, "It was obvious from a Dark Souls view," what I'm basing my assumption on IS my interpretation of the typical Souls style referencing. The moveset lift from Priscilla to Freide, being barefoot like Priscilla, having a scythe like Priscilla, the fact that Priscilla (and Yorshka who looks just like her) has a tail, the Painted World of Ariamis being best known for Priscilla being there, the fact that the Corvian weapons reference the Mistriss of the Painted World wielding a scythe and the fact that the enemies within DkS3 are refered to as Corvians within the item descriptions making them one in the same.

What I'm NOT doing is assuming things about characters we haven't properly seen or know anything about other than apparently two statues, one being confirmed in game and the other being assumed due to circumstance- both of which currently do not support your argument. The tail is definitely there on that doll for a reason. Will it be revealed later that Velka does indeed have a tail and will I have to- eheh.. eat crow..? Absolutely. Hell I'll come back here and publicly admit that I was completely wrong. But as of right now, personally, I feel there's nothing nearly conclusive enough to make me think that will be the case.

And yes, I could absolutely be wrong about it being Priscilla. It could indeed be an effigy of Yorshka. Or just a completely new character. Or absolutely nothing at all and just a weird doll with a weird tail. But I personally feel like, due to the similarities and connections above, that Priscilla is the most logical choice, and though I am aware that the most logical choice is never guaranteed, it's the only one I can confidently defend from my own internal scrutiny.

Regardless. I've clearly upset you, and for that I apologize. As I said, it was not my intention to be offensive. Perhaps I misrepresented myself with improper word choice or maybe it's a case of tone and inflection being difficult to gather through text but I honestly was not attempting to belittle you in any way for your opinion. I'm disappointed that you chose not to believe me when I apologized earlier and continued to act rudely towards me, but I accept that I am equally to blame for not having chosen my words more carefully initially. We're talking about speculation, of course we're going to disagree on things, but there was no need for any of that.

[Phoenix]

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

*Sigh* you really don't get it? Why can't it have both? References to Priscilla from the style/weapon/doll etc to Friede but ALSO the statue depict someone else? Such as Velka. Again DS1 the painted world had many references to BOTH Velka and Priscilla.

Priscilla had a tail...there are many statues including ones in the painted world in Ds1 that depicts a woman with a child, what if that child is young Priscilla and the mother is Velka? Perhaps she inherited the tail from Velka, however also having traits of a dragon her tail happened to be more dragon like and less snake like her mothers? Speculation but possible.
Keep in mind a lot of mythologies place snakes and dragons together, and that snakes eventually become dragons and the like.

I already admitted there are references to Priscilla throughout this dlc, however I highly highly HIGHLY doubt that statue is Priscilla. It doesn't make sense to me at all, looks nothing like her and simply out of place right there to me behind Ariandel who is hitting himself with a flail out of some symbol of penance. Which again symbolizes sin.

[HSmasher]

One more point in favor of it being an effigy and not a corpse, if it is indeed of Priscilla at least, is a rather simple one that is easily overlooked:

Even if it is a stuffed corpse (as the logs inside the tail keeping it 'inflated' might imply (also if you look very closesly, at best I believe the tail is just a shed skin, on the edges of all of the holes in it where you can see the logs, it looks more like frayed cloth than torn skin) even if we ignore that the face looks like it's made of wood (a burial mask kind of thing isn't out of the question after all) - it can't be Priscilla, even if it was an absurdly shriveled and decayed body - it's at least 3x too small to actually be Priscilla's body. Recall just how tall/big she actually is in DS1, even decayed she wouldn't porperly fit inside that alcove to begin with, let alone her entire tail which was actually rather large. Short of being just a collection of bones stacked together underneath the cloak at least, and there isn't any indication whatsoever that is the case.



Also, to everyone speculating it is Yorshka before Sulyvhan got to her, do keep in mind that Yorshka was already in Anor Londo living with Gwyndolin when that happens.

Now it's not impossible for her to have once lived in the painted world, however the only actual support for that I can imagine is a joke in and of itself:

When she asks you how exactly you got to her tower since there is not actually way to get to it (clearly doesn't know there is an invisisble path, and where she is sitting she couldn't actually see the Ashen One walking across it) if you reply that you can fly she says:

"Oh, my! I imagined it might be so. Then thou'rt a dragon, or perhaps a crow? Well, whatever thou beest, thou'rt wondrous strange, yet strangely familiar, visitor."

Conspiracy time, the first two things to come to her mind were dragons and crows, two things strongly related to the painted world; the dragon being in priscilla and the crow being - well that's more obvious.

Unlikely, but possible.


Personally I think a whole lot of the trouble we actually have with the lore this time is the seeming lack of effort they actually put into making this dlc; they put in a whole lot setting it up in references in the base game, and then failed to actually make use of all that and take it anywhere meaningful (perhaps the biggest waste of effort, besides priscilla herself, was the followers of farron and the millwood knights coupled with the huge involvement of wolves in the dlc - all of that went nowhere at all, where instead they could have dedicated a whole half of the dlc to what the hell the followers were actually doing there and what farron and the undead legion had to do with the painted world (moreover that would have also helped explain the millwood knights' presence, on the millwood greatbow we learn the knight's primary enemy was the "Abyss Dragon", considering the undead legion's role is to fight the Abyss, that right there's a perfect tie-in for the two. But no, instead we get two meaningless filler enemies.)

[SOLOMON]

İlk olarak Phoenix tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Severen tarafından gönderildi:

*Sigh* you really don't get it? Why can't it have both? References to Priscilla from the style/weapon/doll etc to Friede but ALSO the statue depict someone else? Such as Velka. Again DS1 the painted world had many references to BOTH Velka and Priscilla.

Priscilla had a tail...there are many statues including ones in the painted world in Ds1 that depicts a woman with a child, what if that child is young Priscilla and the mother is Velka? Perhaps she inherited the tail from Velka, however also having traits of a dragon her tail happened to be more dragon like and less snake like her mothers? Speculation but possible.
Keep in mind a lot of mythologies place snakes and dragons together, and that snakes eventually become dragons and the like.

I already admitted there are references to Priscilla throughout this dlc, however I highly highly HIGHLY doubt that statue is Priscilla. It doesn't make sense to me at all, looks nothing like her and simply out of place right there to me behind Ariandel who is hitting himself with a flail out of some symbol of penance. Which again symbolizes sin.

I do get it.

I just don't agree.

You've made a lot of cultural and spiritual references outside of the game, which is fine and yes they're good connections in terms of symbolism, but I don't see them holding more weight than what's present in the game, having been deliberately placed and more obvious. I would actually be shocked if I was incorrect in my assumption- not because I'm so sure I'm right but because the alternatives seem like such a logical misstep considering everything I've compiled in my head. I'm 100% okay with admitting I'm wrong if it turns out to be the case, but I will be very shocked due to how heavy-handed the referencing seems.

It's possible the child is Priscilla. It's also possible the child is Beatrice the Abyss walking witch. It's possible the statue is Gwyn's wife and the Firstborn due to being more or less erased from history and being locked away much the same as items pertaining to Velka. There's lots of things that can be speculated. I wont say which is right, I can't, that would be arrogant of me. All I can say is what I think makes the most sense to me.

You mention statues being subject to artist interpretation multiple times- why does that hold true for the supposed statues of Velka but not my presumed effigy of Priscilla? Why does its literal appearance push you so heavily away from it since it's not a 1:1 representation of Priscilla but Velka statues can be missing entire distinctive features and that's okay..? I'm sure you can agree that seems hypocritical, right? And so you can see why I'm having trouble accepting what you say on that point when you outright deny it on the other side? We at least KNOW what Priscilla looks like, and in basic form it resembles the effigy. Velka, we do not. We have 2 different statues said to represent her already but now there's to be a third that looks even more different than the others..? It's possible yes but why would you take issue with me seeing that as more of a stretch considering another entity more closely fits the bill in literal form?

[SOLOMON]

İlk olarak The_Assassin711 tarafından gönderildi:

One more point in favor of it being an effigy and not a corpse, if it is indeed of Priscilla at least, is a rather simple one that is easily overlooked:

Even if it is a stuffed corpse (as the logs inside the tail keeping it 'inflated' might imply (also if you look very closesly, at best I believe the tail is just a shed skin, on the edges of all of the holes in it where you can see the logs, it looks more like frayed cloth than torn skin) even if we ignore that the face looks like it's made of wood (a burial mask kind of thing isn't out of the question after all) - it can't be Priscilla, even if it was an absurdly shriveled and decayed body - it's at least 3x too small to actually be Priscilla's body. Recall just how tall/big she actually is in DS1, even decayed she wouldn't porperly fit inside that alcove to begin with, let alone her entire tail which was actually rather large. Short of being just a collection of bones stacked together underneath the cloak at least, and there isn't any indication whatsoever that is the case.



Also, to everyone speculating it is Yorshka before Sulyvhan got to her, do keep in mind that Yorshka was already in Anor Londo living with Gwyndolin when that happens.

Now it's not impossible for her to have once lived in the painted world, however the only actual support for that I can imagine is a joke in and of itself:

When she asks you how exactly you got to her tower since there is not actually way to get to it (clearly doesn't know there is an invisisble path, and where she is sitting she couldn't actually see the Ashen One walking across it) if you reply that you can fly she says:

"Oh, my! I imagined it might be so. Then thou'rt a dragon, or perhaps a crow? Well, whatever thou beest, thou'rt wondrous strange, yet strangely familiar, visitor."

Conspiracy time, the first two things to come to her mind were dragons and crows, two things strongly related to the painted world; the dragon being in priscilla and the crow being - well that's more obvious.

Unlikely, but possible.


Personally I think a whole lot of the trouble we actually have with the lore this time is the seeming lack of effort they actually put into making this dlc; they put in a whole lot setting it up in references in the base game, and then failed to actually make use of all that and take it anywhere meaningful (perhaps the biggest waste of effort, besides priscilla herself, was the followers of farron and the millwood knights coupled with the huge involvement of wolves in the dlc - all of that went nowhere at all, where instead they could have dedicated a whole half of the dlc to what the hell the followers were actually doing there and what farron and the undead legion had to do with the painted world (moreover that would have also helped explain the millwood knights' presence, on the millwood greatbow we learn the knight's primary enemy was the "Abyss Dragon", considering the undead legion's role is to fight the Abyss, that right there's a perfect tie-in for the two. But no, instead we get two meaningless filler enemies.)

Interesting stuff-

On a similar note, do we know if there's any correlation to the doll that's used to gain access to Irithyll and the doll used to enter the Painted World of Ariamis? Is it just that Sulyvahn used similar magic to protect Irithyll that the Painted World was protected by or is there something more to it, considering there appears to be another crossbreed in the vicinity in the form of Yorshka hidden behind an impassable wall without a peculiar doll just like the original Painted World?

[HSmasher]

Interesting stuff-

On a similar note, do we know if there's any correlation to the doll that's used to gain access to Irithyll and the doll used to enter the Painted World of Ariamis? Is it just that Sulyvahn used similar magic to protect Irithyll that the Painted World was protected by or is there something more to it, considering there appears to be another crossbreed in the vicinity in the form of Yorshka hidden behind an impassable wall without a peculiar doll just like the original Painted World?

At the very least I doubt it has anything to do with Yorshka; the doll in DS1 was only relevant to getting to the painted world because it was actually Priscilla's doll (how the doll came back from the painted world is a slight mystery.)

The doll for getting into Irithyll is more like a common key that Sulyvhan just gave out to anyone that was important enough. Based on the way the barrier actually works, it probably didn't even have to be an enchanted doll to grant access, just a coincidence that's what Sulyvhan chose it to be.



On a different note, I just went and took another look at the effigy and there's definitely something I missed before on the right hand side. You can see further up the cloak and see the 'tail' feeding upward. Whatever the hell it's supposed to be has no legs, or waist.... in fact (though it's not definitive) the entire thing might just be one serpentine body with a human looking head on top, which probably also has a human-like torso taking the shoulders into account. But there is no indication of anything resembling legs down there to be found, it's sitting on the 'tail', that's what's keeping the whole thing propped up.