Hyper armor breaks PVP

[SS]

What is the benefit of having a weapon that attacks faster if your opponent's hyper armor activates almost exactly the moment they initiate their swing?

The speed it takes your hyper armor to activate is roughly the same speed it takes an attack to be swung by a faster weapon.. On top of this, if you attack with a faster weapon and they hyper armor through, it isn't fast enough for you to then roll out of range; and you won't be able to hyper armor through a heavy weapon, so the heavy weapon always wins that exchange.

So basically, you've weapons that do more damage, have more range, and that have no downside to being slow because of hyper armor. Which essentially means heavy weapons are the same as any fast weapon, except with different timings, and higher damage on each attack.

The weakness of heavy weapons appears to only be that most of them suck at chasing people down, however, that goes for almost every weapon that doesn't have a cheese range running thrust.

Now then, people are going to say "heavy weapons are easy to punish". Which is true.. IF you can outrange them. You see, if you roll through a heavy weapon in some attempt to punish, you'll often find that by the time your roll animation is done, their attack animation is already over, and so they can easily evade unscathed. So it is really only things that can outrange the weapon that really benefit from it being sluggish. I think the only exception to this might be the dagger weapon art which allows you to punish quite easily, although at the cost of FP so it's use is limited, and dagger damage is extremely low..

Basically, high hyper armor weapons are all reward with basically no real downside. It is really no wonder almost everyone is using them.

[odinigh]

Originally posted by SS:

If it went this smoothly EVERYONE would be doing it.

Actually, the rule is that if you stay too close to someone who has initiated the backstab, it will turn you around no matter what.
It's not a connection issue!

[SS]

Originally posted by Telf:

Originally posted by SS:

How often do you see them? It never happens. You think it is going to go as smoothly as a set up video? You think your opponent is going to line up perfectly like that?

Nope. It's just a single strategy. There are a couple of others.
Shouting 'how often do you see them' is an invalid argument. I don't often see people tossing firebombs next to them to hit roll-spammers but I know it can, and does, happen.

Yes it does. It proves that it isn't consistent enough to be relied upon. If it were, people would use it.

Why wouldn't people use it otherwise? Think about it. If it were so good, and so consistent, why isn't everyone doing it? Because it doesn't go that smoothly, Parry is impacted by connection, as it backstab.

Also, aside from that, compare that to how simplistic hyper armor is. How does an inconsistent roll backstab that never happens because it isn't reliable compare to hyper armor which requires you merely to attack?

Lets assume connection isnt' a factor at all. Then does it become reliable? No, because it requires the heavy weapon user to line up a certain way, and it requires you to be positioned correctly, and timed correctly. So even without connection, it is thrown into whack anyway because of how finicky it is in general.

[odinigh]

Originally posted by SS:

Why wouldn't people use it otherwise? Think about it. If it were so good, and so consistent, why isn't everyone doing it? Because it doesn't go that smoothly, Parry is impacted by connection, as it backstab.

Nah, only bad people don't use it.
https://youtu.be/AOjV-U6eEXY?t=1m49s

[SS]

Originally posted by odinigh:

Originally posted by SS:

Why wouldn't people use it otherwise? Think about it. If it were so good, and so consistent, why isn't everyone doing it? Because it doesn't go that smoothly, Parry is impacted by connection, as it backstab.

Nah, only bad people don't use it.
https://youtu.be/AOjV-U6eEXY?t=1m49s

Then everyone must be bad, because it never happens.

Backstabs, like parrys are determined heavily by connection. It has always been that way, and as long as it is that way, it isn't a reliable counter.

I never said it couldn't happen, i merely said it isn't reliable, it isn't going to consistently happen.

Hyperarmor is terribly reliable on the other hand, and is extremely simplistic in the way it works.

[odinigh]

Originally posted by SS:

Originally posted by odinigh:

Nah, only bad people don't use it.
https://youtu.be/AOjV-U6eEXY?t=1m49s

Then everyone must be bad, because it never happens.

Sounds about right!
Such is life. People are bad, so we kill them and move on.
Happens plenty when I try it.

[SS]

Originally posted by odinigh:

Originally posted by SS:

Then everyone must be bad, because it never happens.

Sounds about right!
Such is life. People are bad, so we kill them and move on.
Happens plenty when I try it.

Reread it, i edited it.

[odinigh]

Nice edit

Originally posted by SS:

Backstabs, like parrys are determined heavily by connection. It has always been that way, and as long as it is that way, it isn't a reliable counter.

I never said it couldn't happen, i merely said it isn't reliable, it isn't going to consistently happen.

Backstabs aren't connection-based like parries are.
The desync can only set one off so much.
Once you initialize the backstab, you simply need to stay near the opponent for it to happen.
That's how parries have always worked in DS3!

[SS]

Originally posted by odinigh:

Nice edit

Originally posted by SS:

Backstabs, like parrys are determined heavily by connection. It has always been that way, and as long as it is that way, it isn't a reliable counter.

I never said it couldn't happen, i merely said it isn't reliable, it isn't going to consistently happen.

Backstabs aren't connection-based like parries are.
The desync can only set one off so much.
Once you initialize the backstab, you simply need to stay near the opponent for it to happen.
That's how parries have always worked in DS3!

Everything that is happening from one player to another is connection based. Everything.

If things could happen in realtime over a connection, lag wouldn't exist.

[Elllll]

The astounding logic here:
>I don't see it alot.
> Therefore it never happens.
> Therefore it is bad and unreliable.

It's not just because it takes abit of practise which not everyone wants to do (and fair enough). No, that would make too much sense.

[odinigh]

Originally posted by SS:

Everything that is happening from one player to another is connection based.

That doesn't change the rule of the backstabs!
Which you clearly have never even tried!
That's why anyone with a brain tries to roll away when you go to backstab them.
That's why when people turn around to hit you, they get backstabbed anyway!
I could probably go into any match ever, and pull off a backstab!
Unreliable? Hardly.

[Elllll]

Originally posted by odinigh:

That's why when people turn around to hit you, they get backstabbed anyway!

This is pretty much the point I and the video I linked makes.
But the OP won't accept this.

[Taco Cat]

Ya know, with all this arguing, a normal human would have checked the stuff suggested to him...

[Foster]

Reminds me of one of my first PvP encounters. I was using a greataxe. A player invaded me with some kinda sword (this was a long time ago so I don't remember what they were using). We went through a basic back-and-forth exchange for a little bit, when I finally decided "screw it" and started winding up a strong attack.

And this is how I discovered hyper armor. He attacked and hit me, but I didn't break out of the animation. Before he could recover, the strong attack fully charged and I brought the axe down on him, smashing him flat and killing him in one hit. It was awesome.

[goka9696]

Originally posted by SS:

Originally posted by goka9696:

People like you are the reason From removed poise

Thanks.

And no, hyperarmor is not poise and I don't care that it's affected by "poise"

Thank god they did. Poise is the most retarded thing they put in the game.

All these heavy criers are mad they didn't get an ever easier ride, how embarrassing.

All poise does is let you cheese out of someone's combo despite getting hit. If you get hit, you've made a mistake and should be punished for it, not rewarded by forcing the attacker into a vulnerable state just because they attacked you (like they're supposed to do) so you can one shot him with your easymode weapon.

If you really care about PvP in DS games so much, you're the retarded one here.

DS combat is not nearly deep enough to be something to be taken seriously in PvP. Removing poise actually made it easier because now everyone can be stunned out of their attacks. Even those who use heavy weapons with hyperarmor can be taken out of it if you attack them fast enough to break it, or attack them with a heavier weapon. For example, 2 handed halberds are cancelled by greatswords, which in turn are cancelled by ultra greatswords, et cetera.

Originally posted by SS:

Originally posted by TacoCat:

No, he is right, we're all wrong, he is the PvP god.

The majority aren't always right. Also, there are more stupid people than smart people, so the fact that i'm in the minority suggests it is more likely i'm right.

Every village also has one crazy guy who keeps spouting stupid ♥♥♥♥.

Just saying.

[^9[DSS]Dahaka]

Is there ANYTHING this guy hasnt complained about yet?
Just curious...