Cheesing vs. using your build

[Ambugaton]

So I finally did a pyro build and it was a blast. I've run through DS1 and DS3 countless times, but always with pure melee characters. The pyro run started to be fun when I stopped thinking like a melee fighter and started actually using the build.

Don't want to deal with a mimic? toxic mist it, come back to finish it off after you've cleared the area.

Gank squads in ariandel? Rapport + slumbering dragoncrest ring, have them kill each other off. That giant in the tower firing arrows? yeah, rapport worked great on him too, nice of him to kill everyone in the area off for me.

Patrolling jailers? Oh wow, stupid mobs come to stare at the seething chaos almost like it's an alluring skull. That's convenient. Or just toxic mist them through the wall... hey it's fair I get hit with all kinds of ♥♥♥♥ through walls in this world.

etc etc

But Midir, is it really cheesing the boss to *use* your build, not really exploiting an unintended consequence of game mechanics? Why wouldn't my caster use pestilent mist to supplement his attack on that mountain of angry flesh?

I always saw cheesing as either exploiting an unintended consequence of game mechanics or exploiting something that's totally unrealistic (like using ranged through the window for the second appearance of the wyvern in Dragon's peak. No the thing wouldn't really just stand there taking 50 or whatever arrows to the neck and head) But at least with a pyro build and I imagine other casters, there are options that make life easier and actually change up the way you approach problems. It adds to the game rather than taking away from it.

[deuceyd]

To me, atleast in DS3, Pyromancer seems the most viable in PVE. They get all their pyromancies relatively early in the game (earlier than a faith/sorcerer build anyway). Not to mention they get their BEST spells early in the game, Chaos Bed Vestiges and Great Chaos Fire Orb. Both of which destroy in PvE, and trivialize a lot of bosses. A lot of enemies are weak to fire. By ithryll dungeon you can get the dark infusion which would benefit from the Int/Faith stats and is great for PvP and by Anor Londo you can get chaos which is great for PvE. Faith builds dont really have much going for them IMO, sorcerer can be really powerful but are too squishy for my taste.

Not to mention investing in both int/faith gives you access to healing spells, miracle buffs like ToD, and sorceries if you wanted to use them.

[Garou]

If you beat the game with melee chars as you said there's no shame in doing whatever you want.

[Something]

I'm primarily a melee player as well, though I just recently leveled a Sorcerer to 103 and that thing ruins everything it comes across. Well, for the most part anyways. Magic-based bosses like Ocieros or however you spell his name, or Aldrich was kind of a pain. Once I got 50 int, Crystal Soul Spear, and my Moonlight Greatsword however, I've been dooking on everything, even people. They don't expect me to deal just as much damage with the Moonlight Greatsword as I deal with Crystal Soul Spear.

[Ambugaton]

Originally posted by Deucey D:

To me, atleast in DS3, Pyromancer seems the most viable in PVE. They get all their pyromancies relatively early in the game (earlier than a faith/sorcerer build anyway). Not to mention they get their BEST spells early in the game, Chaos Bed Vestiges and Great Chaos Fire Orb. Both of which destroy in PvE, and trivialize a lot of bosses. A lot of enemies are weak to fire. By ithryll dungeon you can get the dark infusion which would benefit from the Int/Faith stats and is great for PvP and by Anor Londo you can get chaos which is great for PvE. Faith builds dont really have much going for them IMO, sorcerer can be really powerful but are too squishy for my taste.

Not to mention investing in both int/faith gives you access to healing spells, miracle buffs like ToD, and sorceries if you wanted to use them.

Pyro has been a blast. A lot of the game is easy mode tbh, but there's so many approaches it allows that it's fun. Even in areas like RInged City that I was dreading, figuring nothing would work.. well, if something is resistant to fire, chances are it's weak to dark, if it's resistant to both, chances are bleed works great and oh hey, I can use Dorothy's gnawing.... etc And yeah, when I finally really looked at what's offered by miracles seems you get some nice weapon buffs, but what I assume are effective spells are all late game.

[Ambugaton]

Originally posted by Le Goose:

If you beat the game with melee chars as you said there's no shame in doing whatever you want.

I'll go with that :P

[deuceyd]

Oh yea man "good offensive miracles" atleast for PvE, you don't get until late in the game. Like I think sunlight spear you get from the last boss, which sucks. I like many others think that faith builds are just bad in this game period. I could lay out a tiny list of pros and a phone book of cons, but I'll summarize faith builds like this (and keep in mind this is just for a normal new game run):

-lack of a good infusion until lategame
-lack of good offensive miracles until lategame
making you pretty weak on all accounts if you invest solely in faith and attunement before this point, due to lack of a good infusion (lightning). Using a raw weapon + buffs isnt ideal for PvE because of my next point

-miracles cost a ton of FP.

[deuceyd]

Originally posted by Ambugaton:

Originally posted by Le Goose:

If you beat the game with melee chars as you said there's no shame in doing whatever you want.

I'll go with that :P

If you really REALLY want to "cheese" the game you can do what I did. Its tough, and I recommend you bring some friends but if you are a pyromancer investing solely into 40/40 int/faith then this is OP. Play normally up until cathedral of the deep (maybe do abyss watchers and etc first to get access to smouldering lake pyromancies), then head to cleansing chapel and do the DLC early. ♥♥♥♥ is tough to do at sl40 which is when I did it, but being a pyro means you can and should also be able to use sorceries. Spells like hidden body and the slumbering dragon ring will help you here. Spam those things like crazy and basically just skip straight to the friede fight. If you can beat her early (god bless your soul), you can get access to the ringed city early, which will get you the murky longstaff and the spirit bomb AKA great soul dregs.

With great soul dregs and the murky you can deal like 1500 damage to the dancer in 1 hit. Using this on soul of cinder is basically GG EZ.

[Ambugaton]

Originally posted by Deucey D:

Originally posted by Ambugaton:

I'll go with that :P

If you really REALLY want to "cheese" the game you can do what I did. Its tough, and I recommend you bring some friends but if you are a pyromancer investing solely into 40/40 int/faith then this is OP. Play normally up until cathedral of the deep (maybe do abyss watchers and etc first to get access to smouldering lake pyromancies), then head to cleansing chapel and do the DLC early. ♥♥♥♥ is tough to do at sl40 which is when I did it, but being a pyro means you can and should also be able to use sorceries. Spells like hidden body and the slumbering dragon ring will help you here. Spam those things like crazy and basically just skip straight to the friede fight. If you can beat her early (god bless your soul), you can get access to the ringed city early, which will get you the murky longstaff and the spirit bomb AKA great soul dregs.

With great soul dregs and the murky you can deal like 1500 damage to the dancer in 1 hit. Using this on soul of cinder is basically GG EZ.

I did an sl 30 run as a melee guy there, that was not fun. effing wolves were the worst when it doesn't take many hits to kill you.

lmao even just basic black fireballs with the dark clutch ring and the pyro rings were nasty against her. I don't think my guy even had to move all that much. I'll try it out :P