To any Spears of the Church

[Rosario]

If you actually fight and don't run away, win or lose, thank you, you're awesome.

If you run away constantly, not counting genuine dodging or avoiding being surrounded, basically if you make it a game of tag... You're bossing wrong, and it's boring.

[VI]

*cough* IceFairy - cirno *cough* sl-80 *cough*

[Mori]

Not everyone who gets summoned to that fundamentally flawed fight event wants to "boss". Nor pvp for that matter. You can get summoned as a spear of the church just by having your white sign soapstone down. Furthermore, stalling for additional summons is pretty common among all the spears I've killed. If you really want to avoid it, go into offline mode to get the NPC boss instead.

[Rosario]

Not trying to avoid anything. Just calling out people who are being boring and waste time running away, especially the ones who don't even throw out attacks. It's not as if they lose anything if they go down, the point of the covenant is for people to be able to play as the boss, if they want to treat it like an invasion then they should just invade. Even if you get the random summon from your white sign there's no penalty for losing.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Phobos:

Not everyone who gets summoned to that fundamentally flawed fight event wants to "boss". Nor pvp for that matter. You can get summoned as a spear of the church just by having your white sign soapstone down. Furthermore, stalling for additional summons is pretty common among all the spears I've killed. If you really want to avoid it, go into offline mode to get the NPC boss instead.

Actually the Spear can Black Crystal out and be replaced with Halflight instead.
So even if you are there against you will - you have an option to leave.

Fun fact: even if you Black Crystal at 1 health - the Halflight will be summoned with full health anyway.
Great way to say final "goobye". Halflight is a genuinely strong opponent, despite his NPC nature.

[Xengre]

I don't do spear of the church but hit and run tactics and stalling are not bad tactics just because they make it harder for you or you dislike them. This isn't a boss fight when another player is involved. It is pvp.

If you fail to take opportunity to kill the no longer protected weak summons when the player backs off that is definitely 100% your fault.

[Rosario]

I'm not talking hit and run. If they're actually fighting that's fine, I'm not telling people to tank everything until they die. No my problem is people who waste people's time by just running away, whether it's immediate or after they're health gets shot down. I'd even be fine with the black crystal scenario. It's a bit of a ♥♥♥♥ move, but it's no worse than any other fight having a phase 2. No I'm strictly talking about people who go out of their way to waste your time.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Rosario:

I'm not talking hit and run. If they're actually fighting that's fine, I'm not telling people to tank everything until they die. No my problem is people who waste people's time by just running away, whether it's immediate or after they're health gets shot down. I'd even be fine with the black crystal scenario. It's a bit of a ♥♥♥♥ move, but it's no worse than any other fight having a phase 2. No I'm strictly talking about people who go out of their way to waste your time.

It sounds like you are complaining about them backing off to either heal or receive healing and allowing aggro from the AI summons they have. Like I said, kill the stupid summons and go kill the player after. I don't see the issue especially if you have other player summoned to help you.

[Mori]

Originally posted by Arwen:

well, true, but you dont need to run then, you just can let people kill you - it is faster...

I would defend this, but the amount of people who point down and throw dung pies when I do this compels me to just murder the host to get it over with. Its just about as quick. That and the fact that I was once summoned three times in a row to different spears fights as the "boss" while just trying to be co-op password summoned by a friend to help them kill Midir. This summon happens more often than it should, and it nearly gets to the point to where you're doing that if you're going to be doing anything.

Originally posted by Rosario:

Not trying to avoid anything. Just calling out people who are being boring and waste time running away, especially the ones who don't even throw out attacks. It's not as if they lose anything if they go down, the point of the covenant is for people to be able to play as the boss, if they want to treat it like an invasion then they should just invade. Even if you get the random summon from your white sign there's no penalty for losing.

This still avoids the fact that running away until another friendly NPC is summoned is a common tactic since non-miracle builds cannot heal outside of those mobs. Not to mention the fact that said mobs are usually dead before the summoned spear even gets to the fight, turning it into an all estus vs. no estus fight.

I would reset the king's decree and fight spears a lot more if it weren't for the fact that it is usually a stacked fight and the "invader" is usually someone trying to co-op with someone else.

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by Phobos:

Not everyone who gets summoned to that fundamentally flawed fight event wants to "boss". Nor pvp for that matter. You can get summoned as a spear of the church just by having your white sign soapstone down. Furthermore, stalling for additional summons is pretty common among all the spears I've killed. If you really want to avoid it, go into offline mode to get the NPC boss instead.

Actually the Spear can Black Crystal out and be replaced with Halflight instead.
So even if you are there against you will - you have an option to leave.

Fun fact: even if you Black Crystal at 1 health - the Halflight will be summoned with full health anyway.
Great way to say final "goobye". Halflight is a genuinely strong opponent, despite his NPC nature.

Players unfamiliar with PVP would not be aware of this, and would also probably not understand that they wouldn't lose their souls.

[Xengre]

IIRC doesn't Spear of the Church only get two summons max? Just kill the dang things while the player doesn't protect it. Regardless, there is also a noticeable delay in the summons and the first one can be killed effectively instantly leaving only one (if the boss player even survives long enough for it to spawn).

[Rosario]

Nah, healing is fine. And I'm not questioning the effectiveness, it's just really boring. I'm not even amazing at PvP and don't min-max my damage and I still win a majority of my fights as a Spear without running away constantly.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Rosario:

Nah, healing is fine. And I'm not questioning the effectiveness, it's just really boring. I'm not even amazing at PvP and don't min-max my damage and I still win a majority of my fights as a Spear without running away constantly.

TL:DR
"i prefer to actually have a fight, not run after mr. oily man."
Which is an understandable position. If only backpedalling wasn't so effective...

[Rosario]

Yeah, that's about right.

[Seferofe]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by Phobos:

Not everyone who gets summoned to that fundamentally flawed fight event wants to "boss". Nor pvp for that matter. You can get summoned as a spear of the church just by having your white sign soapstone down. Furthermore, stalling for additional summons is pretty common among all the spears I've killed. If you really want to avoid it, go into offline mode to get the NPC boss instead.

Actually the Spear can Black Crystal out and be replaced with Halflight instead.
So even if you are there against you will - you have an option to leave.

Fun fact: even if you Black Crystal at 1 health - the Halflight will be summoned with full health anyway.
Great way to say final "goobye". Halflight is a genuinely strong opponent, despite his NPC nature.

Actually he won't, he'll just have reduced health, but won't be put at 1. I had a Spear leave after he got hit a couple times, and Halflight came in with about 60% health.

[Mori]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by Rosario:

Nah, healing is fine. And I'm not questioning the effectiveness, it's just really boring. I'm not even amazing at PvP and don't min-max my damage and I still win a majority of my fights as a Spear without running away constantly.

TL:DR
"i prefer to actually have a fight, not run after mr. oily man."
Which is an understandable position. If only backpedalling wasn't so effective...

Or, from the other end, "Fight me while I have estus and you have no healing. Backup comes in a minute if at all. That is your problem, not mine."

Not to mention that if a runner is that much of a problem, especially in this 'arena', your build may not be versatile enough to punish. This is a limited and square shaped arena. It is easy to angle someone into one of the many weapons that punish rolls and running or rolling straight backwards. This includes but is not limited to; crossbows, spears, curved greatswords, RK paired GS, literally any caster, katanas, some greatswords, UGS rolling attacks (requires more finesse), greatshields (underrated), daggers, whips (and whip related tech), and light roll builds to name a few.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Phobos:

Originally posted by Artek General:

TL:DR
"i prefer to actually have a fight, not run after mr. oily man."
Which is an understandable position. If only backpedalling wasn't so effective...

Or, from the other end, "Fight me while I have estus and you have no healing. Backup comes in a minute if at all. That is your problem, not mine."

Not to mention that if a runner is that much of a problem, especially in this 'arena', your build may not be versatile enough to punish. This is a limited and square shaped arena. It is easy to angle someone into one of the many weapons that punish rolls and running or rolling straight backwards. This includes but is not limited to; crossbows, spears, curved greatswords, RK paired GS, literally any caster, katanas, some greatswords, UGS rolling attacks (requires more finesse), greatshields (underrated), daggers, whips (and whip related tech), and light roll builds to name a few.

I think we are talking about different situations.
We are not talking about people trying to stay alive. We are talking about people who just waste host's time. You know the type. The naked guys in the arena who have no weapons, equip load at 0% and only have both carthus' rings and just roll away until the match time runs out. Those types.

Rolling away from attacks to give yourself a breather is fine.
However, that breather must lead to something. One should not survive for the goal of survival. There must be something after, something rolling was leading to. Some action. Attack when at full stamina, a spell cast, anything at all. Not just more rolling.

Yes, roll catching is an option. But it shouldn't be a mandatory option because the Spear is too much of a ♥♥♥♥♥ to lose and just aims to waste everyone's time.
Roll catching for the sake of combat - sure.
Roll catching for the sake of murdering a time-wasting parazite - frankly a dirty activity.