Crystal Magic Weapon > Crystal Infusion

[Black Captain]

Can someone help me with the maths on damage output here.

I was using a damage calculator (haven't tested this ingame), but at 60 INT, my +10 caestus should be doing more damage as Raw + crystal magic weapon buff than if you did Crystal infusion on the same weapon.

The damage difference is quite high if you use the +10 Court Sorcerer Staff. Assuming the damage is indeed better, is the only reason people wouldn't do this combo is because it takes up a attunement slot, costs FP, and isn't a permanent attack buff?

I mean... 3 cons are pretty significant if you can't play around them. But the damage increase was quite noticeable.

[Seferofe]

Yeah, crystal infusion is constant good damage, while buff is temporary amazing damage.

Also buff builds run the risk of having their buff being taken away via the duel charms.

So if you plan to use buffs, keep something like a crystal long sword or whatever as backup.

[Black Captain]

Interesting. My ideal setup is to have 2 caestuses, one raw and one crystal. I didn't know a debuff throwable existed. Makes sense.

[Seferofe]

Originally posted by DuWryght:

Interesting. My ideal setup is to have 2 caestuses, one raw and one crystal. I didn't know a debuff throwable existed. Makes sense.

To be fair it's hardly ever used for some reason. It's just a buff removal version of the undead hunter charm.

[Black Captain]

I figure and I imagine it's not easy it hit with and you run the risk of someone rushing you down and mauling you since from my understanding 99% of pvp is melee mash fest.

[Seferofe]

Originally posted by DuWryght:

I figure and I imagine it's not easy it hit with and you run the risk of someone rushing you down and mauling you since from my understanding 99% of pvp is melee mash fest.

It's honestly not really hard to land, since it has a decent AoE and slightly lingers, plus it's only risky if you throw it into their face or as they're casting a spell. But for some reason no one ever uses them.

[Tao314zdin]

Buff takes up a ring slot and locks offhand to something simple-infused (outside of gimmick arena-only builds).

Also you are comparing for 60 int which is not how element-damage melee builds work, they cap at 35-40 and invest to str/dex to get more damage. So, if you want to compare raw+buff at 60 int with element-infusion, compare it to 35-40 int with 20-25 points added to str/dex (exact distribution depends on weapon).

[Elbonris]

Originally posted by Seferofe:

Originally posted by DuWryght:

I figure and I imagine it's not easy it hit with and you run the risk of someone rushing you down and mauling you since from my understanding 99% of pvp is melee mash fest.

It's honestly not really hard to land, since it has a decent AoE and slightly lingers, plus it's only risky if you throw it into their face or as they're casting a spell. But for some reason no one ever uses them.

I stopped using them in duels becauae people kept getting mad and it would ruin the fight.

Now I just stand still until their buff runs out.

[Black Captain]

Originally posted by Some Dude:

Also you are comparing for 60 int which is not how element-damage melee builds work, they cap at 35-40 and invest to str/dex to get more damage. So, if you want to compare raw+buff at 60 int with element-infusion, compare it to 35-40 int with 20-25 points added to str/dex (exact distribution depends on weapon).

I'm a sorcerer going pure int. But I'm choosing to have casting and melee options using a raw caestus with the crystal magic buff. I wanted to invest in 1 stat for damage. Based on some dmg calculation programs, these was be best route if I'm not investing in Str or Dex.

[The Icecream Snowman]

It actually doesn't matter how much damage your weapon does. It only matters how many hits it takes to kill an enemy. For this reason, Infusion is best for general PvE, buff is good for boss fights but might let you down when it runs out.

Consider the following scenario...
An enemy has 1000 HP.
Weapon 1 deals 900 damage
Weapon 2 deals 500 damage
Which weapon is better?

They both require two hits to kill the enemy so their 'effective damage' is the same. If weapon 2 is faster and lighter, it would in fact deal higher dps against this enemy. Now consider a boss with 10000 HP. Weapon 1 will kill the boss in fewer hits so it is (probably) the better weapon.

This applies to the buff vs infusion debate as well. If you can kill enemies in the same number of hits with infusion, then the buff won't gain you anything against mobs. If it reduces the required hits against tough enemies then buffing might be worth it, provided you can spare the slot. The reduced base weapon damage might leave you with a lower 'effective damage', though. Because you will have to recast your buff during boss fights you might end up missing an attack window, or taking a hit while doing so. This will reduce your dps against said boss.

Having played around with buffs and infusions I've found that buffs, while granting significantly more damage, are just too fiddly and will run out just as you need it. Excellent for short burst damage but then again, so are spells.

For reference, I've used the following
Str 16
Dex 40
Int 60
Fth 45

+10 Lothric Knight Swords in the following formats
Crystal
Dark
Sharp + Crystal Magic Weapon

Crystal gives good base damage until Dark overtakes it with increasing Fth, at around 40-45. Damage is around 300-500, depending on the enemy.
Sharp deal about 250-400, up to 400-600 when buffed.

These numbers are very rough but you get the idea.

As an experienced Dex-caster I use a Dark Lothric Knight Sword alongside the Witch's Locks.

[Black Captain]

I think that's cool what you wrote. This conversation is mostly for pvp since pve you can do whatever and it really doesn't matter. I don't tend to need to rebuff or find a space to do that while the boss is transitioning or too far to be attacked anyway.

For most engagements, with the lingering whatever ring, the buff time last more than long enough to complete the fight.

I do see what you are saying with the dps amounts. What's interesting in how resistances work with regard to Raw weapons. Raw weapons will always do more physical/type dmg than their crystal counterparts. Crystal magic buff seems to always beat out the Crystal infusion. Even if the target has high resistances in magic or physical, the Raw + buff always puts our more damage. With high magic resistance and knowing that dmg is split favoring magic damage regardless of weapon, the buffed raw weapon wins out, especially if the enemy has high magic resistance. Raw weapons have the flexibly to be buffed in a different element as well.

For me, the benefit of using crystal infusion is that I don't have to buff and can swap weapons w/o losing my dmg buff. Considering that this is a numbers game, while Raw + buff puts out higher numbers, I haven't tested if this was inconsequential to the amount of hits per different targets.