Gwyn's Family (Lore)

[Knightmage Bael]

So from what I know Gwyn had three children before he linked the fire, Gwyndolin you meet, Gwynevere you...kind of...sort of...meet, in a sense, though you read through objects like ring of the sun princess, soothing sunlight, bountiful sunlight, etc, that she moved and married flame god flan. The other son was a traitor and made some big mistakes.

Turns out Filianoir is also a daughter, and the Priscilla looking girl on the isolated tower across the invisible walkway who lets you join the darkmoon covenant refers to Gwyn as "our father", assuming that to mean she's part of the family, hence the "our".

When did this happen though? I'm so confused, because unless Gwynevere never existed, Filianoir cant exist either, unless Gwyn hit up some girl and had more kids after linking the flame, or Dark Souls 1 just never went into detail that he did in fact have a larger family.

Is there anything that specifically states he had only 3 kids? If so what's the deal with Filianoir, and Gwynevere, because they're both firmly part of the lore, and according to the lore they both clearly exist. Its just the one in the first game is merely an illusion, the real one is elsewhere.

Thoughts?

[Skeleton]

Nothing ever specifically stated that he had only three children.
It's just that only three were mentioned in DS1, so we all concluded that they were the only ones.

Gwynevere did actually exist, Bountiful Sunlight and the Divine Blessing reference her. It was just that after she left, the illusion was set up so that people would not notice her absence.

[Average Citizen (Not FBI)]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

Nothing ever specifically stated that he had only three children.
It's just that only three were mentioned in DS1, so we all concluded that they were the only ones.

Gwynevere did actually exist, Bountiful Sunlight and the Divine Blessing reference her. It was just that after she left, the illusion was set up so that people would not notice her absence.

This, this, this.


That said...

Grammar and logic lesson time, kids!

If Filianore is Gwyn's youngest daughter that means he had at least three daughters. Youngest is used if a set numbers three or greater, younger is used if the set is 2 and it's irrelevant if it's one or zero.

[Shard of Manus]

Filianore's existence, and that of the Ringed City, is one big fat secret; hence why we know nothing of it until we come upon it somewhat by chance (with a small sacrifice to The Abyss of a mere £12).

Yorshka is seemingly the youngest child (though Filianore would be the youngest biological daughter), and I'm inclined to believe not Gwyn's biological daughter (much like how I think Gwyndolin is quite likely not to be also) and perhaps was born after the construction of Anor Londo (hence no statues etc.).

Where she was in DS1... well, that's anyone's guess, but Gwyndolin is a master of illusions; my guess would be that he hid her.

[Hunubul]

Yhorshka most likely isn't Gwyn's daughter. "Our father" most likely simply means he's father to everyone. He's the god of gods. The übergod. Everyone is his subject aka son/daughter. At least that's how Yorshka sees him, even tho she most likely never met him.

[gackie]

Through translation, Yorshka's dialogue means a religious father. The "our" is refering to all of the Darkmoon Blades.

[Erebus]

Originally posted by Hat Skeleton!:

Through translation, Yorshka's dialogue means a religious father. The "our" is refering to all of the Darkmoon Blades.

♥♥♥♥, he could also be like Zeus in Greek mythology... especially plausible given Gwyndolin.

[gackie]

Originally posted by Erebus:

Originally posted by Hat Skeleton!:

Through translation, Yorshka's dialogue means a religious father. The "our" is refering to all of the Darkmoon Blades.

♥♥♥♥, he could also be like Zeus in Greek mythology... especially plausible given Gwyndolin.

I thought it'd be more like calling a pope or priest "father". But I guess that could work too.

[Skeleton]

Originally posted by Hat Skeleton!:

I thought it'd be more like calling a pope or priest "father". But I guess that could work too.

While she does mention "Father Gwyn and Sister Gwenyvere" in a formal tone, likely as an official oath of the Darkmoons, she also refers to Gwyndolin as her elder brother, and talks about him informally.

I think that if she were using the term metaphorically, that would imply equal rank. Which brings about some more questions - who outside of Gwyn's famiily could be of equal rank to his children?

Any word on the Japanese version of how she refers to him?

[Shard of Manus]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

Originally posted by Hat Skeleton!:

I thought it'd be more like calling a pope or priest "father". But I guess that could work too.

While she does mention "Father Gwyn and Sister Gwenyvere" in a formal tone, likely as an official oath of the Darkmoons, she also refers to Gwyndolin as her elder brother, and talks about him informally.

I think that if she were using the term metaphorically, that would imply equal rank. Which brings about some more questions - who outside of Gwyn's famiily could be of equal rank to his children?

Any word on the Japanese version of how she refers to him?

Again, this ties in with the speculated theory of both Yorshka and Gwyndolin being most likely adoptive children (or at least those Gwyn helped raise - for whatever good that did).

Both lack the traits of Gwyn's clearly biological children, both are smaller than the other gods (Gwynevere's size unknown, but I'd guess to be the same as Nameless and Gwyn) and both are hybrids.

My best guess would be that they were in fact Seath's children, whom I'd like to believe (before he went insane) held an accord, or perhaps even relationship with Velka. While I may be wrong, Seath is the only other character linked with Moonlight in the games, and Velka being heavily associated with the Darkmoon Blades. I'm more inclined to think that Velka is simply in 'cahoots' with Gwyndolin however (whom also knows of Priscilla in the Painted World), and rather that Gwyndolin and Yorshka possibly share the same mother as Gwynevere's and Nameless.

[Erebus]

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

Originally posted by Skeleton:

While she does mention "Father Gwyn and Sister Gwenyvere" in a formal tone, likely as an official oath of the Darkmoons, she also refers to Gwyndolin as her elder brother, and talks about him informally.

I think that if she were using the term metaphorically, that would imply equal rank. Which brings about some more questions - who outside of Gwyn's famiily could be of equal rank to his children?

Any word on the Japanese version of how she refers to him?

Again, this ties in with the speculated theory of both Yorshka and Gwyndolin being most likely adoptive children (or at least those Gwyn helped raise - for whatever good that did).

Both lack the traits of Gwyn's clearly biological children, both are smaller than the other gods (Gwynevere's size unknown, but I'd guess to be the same as Nameless and Gwyn) and both are hybrids.

My best guess would be that they were in fact Seath's children, whom I'd like to believe (before he went insane) held an accord, or perhaps even relationship with Velka. While I may be wrong, Seath is the only other character linked with Moonlight in the games, and Velka being heavily associated with the Darkmoon Blades. I'm more inclined to think that Velka is simply in 'cahoots' with Gwyndolin however (whom also knows of Priscilla in the Painted World), and rather that Gwyndolin and Yorshka possibly share the same mother as Gwynevere's and Nameless.

Gwyn probably got around (as mythological gods... and royalty were known for).

[Knightmage Bael]

Yeah, Yorshka reminds me of Priscilla, and I know Gwyn hates dargons, so I wonder why? I wish I knew more about Yorshka.