Flame Fan.

[WolfPad]

Is it just me or is this a terrible pyromancy?

I have not noticed a significant increase in speed when using the Flame Fan with or without the Sage Ring+2. The awful speed it has and low damage really makes this pyro absolutely worthless compared to Black Flame or Great Combustion.

I'd say they need to pump up the swing speed on this by at least 40%, otherwise it's just way to easy to dodge and punish.

Thoughts?

[grandma_moses]

Vestiges, Black Flame, Black Orb. In exactly that order. Nothing they release can ever be stronger as one of those spells without turning pyro even more bonkers than it already is.

So yeah, I expected weak pyromancies as we got freaking OP pyromancies galore and I hoped it wouldn't get even more extreme. Also, I believe your are pretty spot on in your analysis: meh speed, has to hit both fans and may be usable against hordes of enemies - but they are often too fast for this spell or AoE spells in gerneral.

Imagine trying to kill Ariandel wolves with the fan. I'm getting sick in my stomach just thinking about it.

[WolfPad]

Originally posted by grandma_moses:

Vestiges, Black Flame, Black Orb. In exactly that order. Nothing they release can ever be stronger as one of those spells without turning pyro even more bonkers than he already is.

So yeah, I expected weak pyromancies as we got freaking OP pyromancies galore and I hoped it wouldn't get even more extreme.

Right, but this was the last DLC! I mean, if you're going to give us a garbage pyro then why not gives us another weapon/spell/miracle that could actually have some use?

Besides in principle this pyromancy would be great to mix up with weapon attacks or other pyromancies if it wasn't so terrible in speed and damage.

[grandma_moses]

Be fair now, they gave us the scar which helped with our overabundance of problems in PvP.

And in PvE, if there is a build stronger and easier than a pyro in the game, I don't know it yet.
Yeah, new stuff would have been nice, but there is only so many different ways you can let fire shoot from your hands, and Vestiges seems like a super sexy way of doing that.

Sadly they can't ever give us burning damage over time for balancing reasons, that's a niche I'd love to build my house in and raise my kids around.

( crap, wasn't / isn't using an english clause ending in a preposition low tier english? )

[Baking Soda™]

Originally posted by grandma_moses:

Sadly they can't ever give us burning damage over time for balancing reasons, that's a niche I'd love to build my house in and raise my kids around.

poison

[WolfPad]

Originally posted by grandma_moses:

Be fair now, they gave us the scar which helped with our overabundance of problems in PvP.

And in PvE, if there is a build stronger and easier than a pyro in the game, I don't know it yet.
Yeah, new stuff would have been nice, but there is only so many different ways you can let fire shoot from your hands, and Vestiges seems like a super sexy way of doing that.

Sadly they can't ever give us burning damage over time for balancing reasons, that's a niche I'd love to build my house in and raise my kids around.

( crap, wasn't / isn't using an english clause ending in a preposition low tier english? )

I think the spell has lots of potential, it really only needs to be a bit faster.

Also I've entretained the idea that elemental damage in this game is sadly one-dimentional. The only reason to buff a weapon with one resin over another is to either enhanced your weapons already elemental damage or to counter someone's specific elemental weakness. Other than that is all just extra AR, I wish elemental damage had additional effects like:

Fire does DOT for a short duration.
Lightning deals extra poise damage (possible to break hyperarmor on ultra weapons for example).
Magic has extra armor penetration/absorbtion reduction (unless armor is specific against magic).
Dark reduces stamina recovery.
Frost overencumbers you for a very short duration (fatroll/slow walk)

etc.

Originally posted by Dahnyull:

poison

Pop a moss and you're good to go. Oh and did I mention you can carry 99 of those at once?

The damage you'll receive from poison if you're relatively quick to take a moss is not worth the effort of inflicting it in the first place. They've tried to buff it but it's simply not strong enough anyway.

[grandma_moses]

But you get ( limited ) effects from elemental damage iirc, although I know that is not what you mean.

Fire let's some mobs go wild, Lightning staggers easily (?), Dark drains a ton of stamina. But I know what you mean, the effects could be more noticable. Fire could be the highest elemental damage type, Frost could be lower but apply a slow proportional to the amount of frost damage done. Dark could have a chance to spawn a black hole pulling enemies towards it, Lightning could arc out between affected enemies, creating damaging sparks - the possibilities would be endless and would only need to be balanced.

But that would mean dropping the current 'strong against / weak against' system of bosses along with implementing those changes, which may not be a bad thing.

I didn't answer to the 'poison' because I thought it wasn't to be taken seriously, if the guy suggesting it meant it seriously we're gonna have to talk about the myriad of reasons why poison is not fit to be in the DoT niche for a pyro tomorrow.

Mainly of course due to the non-scaling nature of it when viewed in conjunction with int & faith or the close range you need to apply it. Being close to anything is not what your average caster bob wants, although there are exceptions to the rule.

[Toxophilite [East]]

Flame Fan isn't terrible, it's just not a kind of pyromancy made for the typical player. It's more of a 'counter-attack' spell for those good with predicting opponents. With the wide, sweeping motions, it's good at catching rolls and cornering enemies in some of the new PvP areas like Archdragon Peak.

You can swing it repeatedly and keep hiting so long at your opponent doesn't move, and each consecutive hit counts toward counter damage. It's one of the few spells that's great circumstancially, but also pretty decent under normal conditions.

Again, most ppl are 'supposed' to find it useless. I'm glad it's that way too.