So how do people figure out NPC quests without the wiki anyways?

[Sasha Mason]

I've been playing Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne for a while now, but it feels like that it is almost certainly impossible to follow NPC questlines when you don't look it up in the Wiki, which sort of takes away the fun of not knowing what's to come or the joy of discovering a secret, but damn, some of those questlines...

Like, when you need to beat boss A then go to location B talk with NPC C so that he will reappear at location D and don't beat boss E before you've done that and sometimes the NPC is just at a location where you'd never assume an NPC to be. One example would be Alfred's location when you are far enough to give him the unopened summon when he is standing near the Forbidden Words entrance. How do I know? Though the wiki, but I feel like I should get rid of that habit and start to learn to play the game without external help and be just fine.

Looking things up on the Wiki is usually something that shouldn't be needed, yet I have no idea how people are figuring out any of those questlines at all. But what am I doing wrong? When I do read guides on how to do questlines, every step seems so easy to fail if you are doing things too soon and sometimes NPC's end up in locations where if you aren't backtracking would never find them ever, and backtracking through the entirety of the map after every boss just to figure out if something has changed doesn't seem right either :S

[Doc Vivor]

there are a lot of logical reasons you can follow. This game wants you to think for yourself

[Icelus]

Trial and error I guess.

[[Lethalvriend]]

Stuff like Anri's quest can be done without the wiki if you are just a curious player. I do agree that quests like the one from Sirris make it harder to follow, but even that one can be figured out by yourself if you pay attention and join mound makers for example. However, like all souls games I just played fairly blind on a first char and simply replayed them with a different build on another character to make sure I don't miss things.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

They take the time to explore and try over and over again. Perhaps backtracking entire areas doesn't seem like your cup of tea. Doesn't meant it's not right or impossible.

[Vectura]

The one that really got me was with Patches, apparently going to rosaria's area first stops him from showing up. Kind of stupid given that you tend to access rosaria's area first!

[Zesc]

Mostly be reading every item you'll get and closely listening to the dialouge. (If you're actually german, i'll suggest you to switch to english, the translation is crap anyways.)
I found that most questlines make quite sense, only thing i really had problems with in my first playthrought was the invisible bridge to Yorshka and the fact that you could actually level up multiple times at Yoel.

Most stuff is also unveiling if you're just messing around. Buy all miracle from Irina: she gets firekeeper. Same goes for questlines like Orbeck's, Greirat's or even Patches'.

[Sasha Mason]

Originally posted by CMDR Vectura:

The one that really got me was with Patches, apparently going to rosaria's area first stops him from showing up. Kind of stupid given that you tend to access rosaria's area first!

Interestingly enough on my first run, I ended up with Patches first, but since I didn't know anything about the past souls game I didn't know who he was. My friend who I played in coop with just said "Oh yeah, you don't know Patches yet" :D I guess that was good

[Ku no more]

Like the guys above been saying, pay a LOT of attention to details. There are some quests sadly that you will have fail to discover how it works... For example, as far as I know theres no other way to discover for yourself that you need to complete yoel's leveling ups before defeating abyss watcher, or that joining rosaria will make Sirris hostile towards you. ( i mean, you can figure shes not fond of the fingers, but its not too hard to become a finger before she reveals to you her dislike for them).
Also theres some good chance to lose your encounter with patches depending on what you do.

So yeah... some trial and error sadly...
But that aside, also try to always come back to firelink and check if there's anything new! Most npcs wont spawn in their next location until you talk to them in firelink. And even, some npcs might even have new items with clues for you like the handmaid.

[RE-L124C41]

Ask Vaati, he probably knows Gwyn's social security number too.

[Nibbie]

Another point to consider, this is not a game where any individual is expected to find everything. It is like the original Zelda, where people would talk to each other, tell each other what they found because everyone plays differently. Entire areas like Smouldering lake or Ash Lake from DS1 are hidden away, which in an era with less connectivity would be a lot of wasted development time and effort, but being able to learn about these places from your friends, or one of the few who discovered it and shared your discovery with the world, is a state that they are counting on existing.

[Sasha Mason]

Originally posted by Fruta Person:

or that joining rosaria will make Sirris hostile towards you. ( i mean, you can figure shes not fond of the fingers, but its not too hard to become a finger before she reveals to you her dislike for them).
Also theres some good chance to lose your encounter with patches depending on what you do.

Well, missing something is ALWAYS possible. My issue is that once I do find an NPC, I've got no idea what to do with him. Its like I meet him, say Hi, alright that was a good talk and I'm on my way again possibly never meeting him again. Also, about Sirris, as far as I know you can talk to her after joining Rosaria (Giving her atleast one offering) and she will say that she dislikes what you have become and that the next encounter, she will be hostile, so that's pretty straight forward. Yes, you still fail, but you learn from that fail because the game gives you a very obvious hint that what you did was not good.

I'll guess I just have to pay a lot more attention to dialogues and item descriptions and think of it as something with an actual meaning rather than just some lore without context

[Zesc]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

Another point to consider, this is not a game where any individual is expected to find everything. It is like the original Zelda, where people would talk to each other, tell each other what they found because everyone plays differently. Entire areas like Smouldering lake or Ash Lake from DS1 are hidden away, which in an era with less connectivity would be a lot of wasted development time and effort, but being able to learn about these places from your friends, or one of the few who discovered it and shared your discovery with the world, is a state that they are counting on existing.

This. By talking to some of my friends, i learned much about quest i would have missed anyways. Like, i haven't thougth about ever giving a single pale tounge to Rosaria. I even learned most of Pickle-Pee's trading from a friend, before i found guides 'bout it.

[Sasha Mason]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

Another point to consider, this is not a game where any individual is expected to find everything. It is like the original Zelda, where people would talk to each other, tell each other what they found because everyone plays differently. Entire areas like Smouldering lake or Ash Lake from DS1 are hidden away, which in an era with less connectivity would be a lot of wasted development time and effort, but being able to learn about these places from your friends, or one of the few who discovered it and shared your discovery with the world, is a state that they are counting on existing.

Problem is that my friend who I play Dark Souls 3 with knows all that stuff because he reads the wiki and then he comes with so many things I've never seen before ever. Also, it's kind of amazing when I see all sorts of things others people use while I didn't even know that even existed because somehow, I missed it, either by never paying full attention to what the shops offer, missing items (Not really hard to miss an item) or by not completing questlines for NPC's.

Also in games like Zelda where it is purly singleplayer, I'll never know that I missed a secret until I watch YouTube videos and see others running around in armour I've never seen before. In Dark Souls, the "I've never seen that thing before" factor is more frequently when I get invaded and the invader uses a weapon or a cast I didn't know before making me wonder where they found that

[RE-L124C41]

Reality is that for a "casual" gamer it is impossible to follow certain NPC questlines right from the beginning and even after paying attention to every detail because even the details are vague. And to be honest they are overdoing it in DS3.

[Sasha Mason]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

This. By talking to some of my friends, i learned much about quest i would have missed anyways. Like, i haven't thougth about ever giving a single pale tounge to Rosaria. I even learned most of Pickle-Pee's trading from a friend, before i found guides 'bout it.

I didn't even know one could give items to him to get the "Call over" gesture until I seriously wanted to know where people are getting the gesture from because it is basically one of the only few gestures that allow making noise