Tell me again why there are Black Knights at the Untend Graves.

[Zesc]

Another lore thread, huzzah!
So, just a quick thing: could anyone of you tell me why there are Black Knights at the Untend Gaves, right after Champion Gundyr? I mean, the Untend Graves are a world without fire, and one of the few things i remember from my DS1 playthorughts ages ago is that they are Silver Knights being burnt by the flame to become more badass, or so. (Had an argument with a friend whether silver gets Black when burnt.)
But if that place is withotu fire, how could they become burnt? Or are they just like that crow-guys from the Road of Sacrifices there because their apparence fits the general colour theme?

[Dr. Uncredible]

Leaning towards the later, unless I´ve hit my head the black knights are the specific silver knights who joined Lord Gwyn on the first kindling, the massive flame scorching both the landscape and the knights who were with him.

The reason the black knights are in this game at all is most likely down to their popularity. They´re literally Gwyns personal guard.

[lpnlizard27]

Why are they black.. well

The silver knights of Gwyn were sent to face the Bed of Chaos and fight the demon spawn coming from Izalith, They failed and returned to Gwyn With charred blackened armor.

As for why they are in the untended graves... No Clue.

But Black knights were placed in seemingly random locations through out the first game, as well as in the Kiln of the First Flame.

Its possible that since the Kiln is located so close to the Shrine that they are the remains of the knights that once guarded the Kiln.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Originally posted by lpnlizard27:

Why are they black.. well

The silver knights of Gwyn were sent to face the Bed of Chaos and fight the demon spawn coming from Izalith, They failed and returned to Gwyn With charred blackened armor.

As for why they are in the untended graves... No Clue.

But Black knights were placed in seemingly random locations through out the first game, as well as in the Kiln of the First Flame.

Its possible that since the Kiln is located so close to the Shrine that they are the remains of the knights that once guarded the Kiln.

0.o Forgot about the campain against the Bed of Chaos, thanks sir, I guess I did hit my head, huh. ^^

[Zesc]

So just pure fanservice? Nothing else? (And i'm once again suprised this community doesn't associated "fanservice" with nude skin.)

Thx for telling me why they are black (yet what happens if it rains? Insta-degrading into Silver knights?) but i still don't get why they are guarding the Shrine. Assuming Untend Graves play in the universe where you left Gwyns bossroom after obliterating him ("bad" ending), shouldn't they all be gone for good?

[Dr. Uncredible]

I personally think they should be gone, they did have a tendency to wander, which is why you find them spread out throughout DS1.
But to -still- have them in DS3 which is a long while afterwards (yes, yes, time is convoluted I know), and to have such a large concentration of them in that one spot I find confusing.

[Zesc]

"Fires fade silent." Probably they're missing their old master, and thus gathering at a point with a little bittle rest-fire around? Think about where you find all other Black Knights in this game, mostly close to a Lord of Cinder, as if they were moths...
Also, great personal guards if they tend to wander away: "Hey, man, where were you as that assassin killed the boss?" - "Oh, Farron Swamp, enjoying the view..."

[Dr. Uncredible]

Not a bad theory, but as for the wandering, I assume they were pretty loyal while fully alive, but Gwyn hollowed out pretty badly after the first rekindling and I believe his knights did too, they´re probably barely aware of what they´re doing.

[Zesc]

Originally posted by Screamy:

Not a bad theory, but as for the wandering, I assume they were pretty loyal while fully alive, but Gwyn hollowed out pretty badly after the first rekindling and I believe his knights did too, they´re probably barely aware of what they´re doing.

Being hollow (or exactly: being cursed) doesn't means you're entirely mad. As long as you have a purpose, you'll stay sane (just as the player ans NPCs).

[Dr. Uncredible]

Ah, that would be the difference between being undead and going hollow. :)
We´re all undead, therefore cursed, some, like the moss merchant in DS1 are pretty badly undead, but as long as the purpose remains you can keep from going hollow, which is when you basically become a mindless mob.

[Zesc]

Yes, and the Black Knights (atleast in DS1) still had their purpose one protectign Gwyn. Except their real purpose was destroying the Bed of Chaos, what they obvisously screwed up and got hollow because of that?

[Dr. Uncredible]

Not impossible, hollowing is pretty vaguely explained, it´s uggested at various points that you can go hollow from A. Losing purpose. B. Not collecting souls. and C. Dying a bunch.

I personally felt Gwyn ceased to be their lord when he went hollow, but yeah, we´re speculating madly at this point. ^^
Apparently -some- of the black knights hung around to protect him even after the fire. Both sorts are hollow, some stayed while some wandered.

Ed. Maybe there was a point between the fire and the hollowing where some of the guards where sent out for a reason unknown?
And after hollowing they kept wandering as it was the last thing they knew?

[lpnlizard27]

Originally posted by Screamy:

Not a bad theory, but as for the wandering, I assume they were pretty loyal while fully alive, but Gwyn hollowed out pretty badly after the first rekindling and I believe his knights did too, they´re probably barely aware of what they´re doing.

Black knights are not hollow, they do not have a body, they are litterly a soul bonded to the armor.

Black knight set description - DS1
The knights followed Lord Gwyn when he
departed to link the flame, but they
were burned to ashes in newly kindled
fire, wandering the world as disembodied
spirits ever after.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Originally posted by lpnlizard27:

Originally posted by Screamy:

Not a bad theory, but as for the wandering, I assume they were pretty loyal while fully alive, but Gwyn hollowed out pretty badly after the first rekindling and I believe his knights did too, they´re probably barely aware of what they´re doing.

Black knights are not hollow, they do not have a body, they are litterly a soul bonded to the armor.

Black knight set description -
The knights followed Lord Gwyn when he
departed to link the flame, but they
were burned to ashes in newly kindled
fire, wandering the world as disembodied
spirits ever after.

Oh yeah! But at the same time, they are completely mindless, ´s not like any of them communicate.

[Zesc]

Originally posted by lpnlizard27:

Originally posted by Screamy:

Not a bad theory, but as for the wandering, I assume they were pretty loyal while fully alive, but Gwyn hollowed out pretty badly after the first rekindling and I believe his knights did too, they´re probably barely aware of what they´re doing.

Black knights are not hollow, they do not have a body, they are litterly a soul bonded to the armor.

Black knight set description - DS1
The knights followed Lord Gwyn when he
departed to link the flame, but they
were burned to ashes in newly kindled
fire, wandering the world as disembodied
spirits ever after.

Hmm, then DS3 armour description is controversial. (Or german translators messed up stuff, wouldn't be the first time.)

I still doubt they are that mindless as, for example, rats. They are following patrol lines and capable of fighting together, and apparently able to not start a fight with everything they see.

Now this is gameplay AI wise, idk how much that says about their actual sanity.

[Sati44]

Firelink Shrine is conected to the Flameless Shrine and by that to the Kiln of the First Flame.
In ds1 they Black knights where in the Kiln of the First Flame area.
I imagine they just went out to the world from the Kiln for what ever reason just like they did in ds1. You encounter them in different places in that game.
The reason you don't see them in the Cemetary of Ash is because you killed them in Untended Graves in the past.
Just like you don't get Gundyr's souls when you "first" kill him. You are the unamed warrior who killed him in the past and got his soul when he was still the champion (who came to late to light the fire).

This is my take on it based on the lore I remember.