Rock Paper Scissors destroys this game for me

[nakoda]

I spend more time save scumming conversations than I do fighting in combat.

If dialogue choice effect attributes and skills, then in single player it should be the player's CHOICE how the outcome happens.

Having to spend 30+ minutes wrestling with the RNG of Rock Paper Scissors just to assign apprioriate attributes to the right characters and obtain th eplot outcome you wanted is ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t lazy game design.

[nakoda]

it actually makes charisma 100% useless, becuase you ACTUALLY have a greater chance of determining your own outcome when you aren't battling against your own odds.

[Qiox]

The game is not designed for you to assign specific traits to specific characters. It's designed so that traits get assigned based on the decisions you make.


If you decide you want to meta game the situation then you have to put up with the choice you have made. Blaming your choice on the game is just silly.

[Speedweed]

I feel like we've been living too much in the world of meta this, meta that. You need to be able to enjoy other, much older paradigms of games, the idea of dealing with your problems.

[Chrille]

Awww..

.../pat

[nakoda]

1) "the game isn't designed for you to give specific characters specific traits"

that's honestly just stupid. Why shouldn't I want to bolster my rogue +1 Sneak for being Cautious vs +1 leadership for being bold? how is character planning "meta" ... do you even know what the word meta means? because that isn't it.

It's a game .. a video game .. a video game designed specifically for players to custom design their characters as they see fit for progression through a game.

The RPS system makes sense in a Coop environment where you may want one outcome while random other player wants another, this allows the dispute to be handled impartially (sort of).

In a single player game, where you are in full control of the unraveling of the narrative, being able to choose how your characters develop is .. well that's the central ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mechanic of every role playing game. ever. once you're past the limitations of initial character creation, its your choice how to level up within whatever system is presented.

2) "meta this, meta that"

the reason too many people say meta this/meta that is because they don't actually know what the prefix meta means, they've just adopted it like a meme.

for your edification, the "meta" in any media is the media's own self awareness and ability to effect it's own recursive representation, wherein the fourth wall is broken and the media can be "aware" of and interact with the audience.

a player being aware of the system the game uses is called intelligence and preparation.

The RPS system completely undermines the purpose of choosing dialogue to begin with.

3) "/pat"

thanks.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by nakoda:

a player being aware of the system the game uses is called intelligence and preparation.

And then when that player jumps on the forum to cry over the consequences of their intelligence and preperation they are called whiny little b1tches!

[nakoda]

I''m sorry that your preschool and/or your mommy didn't teach you what criticism is, or how to handle it emotionally.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by nakoda:

I''m sorry that your preschool and/or your mommy didn't teach you what criticism is, or how to handle it emotionally.

Go ahead and pretend to be the mature one. Read your posts!

[Ambidex]

You do realize that if you have higher points per win on the rock paper scissor game that if you hit skip, you automatically win right? Also, all of the rock paper scissors are optional; they just provide bonus experience if you win.

[LordBlade]

Originally posted by chasempayne:

Also, all of the rock paper scissors are optional; they just provide bonus experience if you win.

And give you access to new conversation options and event outcomes (like deciding if you have to kill a group of characters or can talk them down and then deal with them peacefully).

[nakoda]

Originally posted by chasempayne:

You do realize that if you have higher points per win on the rock paper scissor game that if you hit skip, you automatically win right? Also, all of the rock paper scissors are optional; they just provide bonus experience if you win.

you do realise, than when choosing dialogue options stragically, sometimes that means you want to lose a conversation, which is a lot more difficult than you think, which is another reason why - above - I stated that you're actually better off with no points in charisma at all so that skipping with B produces more consistent results.

anyway, ultimately, it's still a completely unecessary step that only halts the game every time it pops up. it's tedious and not at all interesting, especially after multiple play throughs.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Qiox:

The game is not designed for you to assign specific traits to specific characters. It's designed so that traits get assigned based on the decisions you make.

I agree...

Originally posted by Qiox:

If you decide you want to meta game the situation then you have to put up with the choice you have made. Blaming your choice on the game is just silly.

It's designers that have been silly not realize a huge majority of players will feel it as challenge and goals to reach.

This system, not rock/paper/crap but traits, is a rather bad design that certanly broke most of the pleasure of dialogs for many players.

So yeah my advice is just ignore the traits and endure them, it's still a pretty bad element, as most stuff that popout during the KS.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by Dorok:

It's designers that have been silly not realize a huge majority of players will feel it as challenge and goals to reach.

Huge majority? Does imagining that some huge majority of people agrees with help you sleep at night?

Stick to what you actually know to be true and your arguments won't look so delusionally stupid.

[Dorok]

I played DOS and have seen the number of posts about traits and the min game, but ok you are right I can't know.

Still there's clear targets, the traits, and choices, the dialog choices. Think most player won't try manage the challenge is big.

[Qiox]

There have been some posts on the topic. But when you consider over a million copies sold, the number of threads making the complaint has been tiny. I don't remember seeing more than 4 or 5 threads over the past year on the topic.