Is Sneaking Still Super Broken?

[Fruit Slice]

I remember playing classic and having a rogue who was just easily stupid broken. I would clear large bosses without breaking a sweat it was terrible. Which stinks because I really wanted to play as a stealth character. So is sneak still broken where you could do super overpowered damage and not even get attacked the next turn?

[Narcoleptic Marshmallow]

Never played classic version myself, but I heard sneaking has been nerfed, which made a lot of people upset it seems. Nowadays rogue characters are a bit underwhelming early game, but they catch up later on with the rest of your party.

I think it's just played differently now, more balanced yes, so what you remember doing in classic might not hold true for enhanced in this regard.

[game shitter]

Basically what Eri said. Rogues can still be viable, but the other classes (esp mage) are too strong so most people will ignore a rogue. I never played a rogue in D:OS classic so I would not know how broken it was, I will just assume it was like bloodletting and leech. But all of that has been balanced pretty well.
The strongest class in the game is a wand mage, since the stats make the mage super good.

[Ssenkrad_II]

There were a couple builds in the original that took a LOT of work to pull off, but the payoff was worth it- "Zombie Build", "Backstab Stealth Assassin Build", etc...

Were they "broken"? F*** no... A build that requires a lot more planning and work to pull off SHOULD reward you for being more powerful... "Balance" now means that some lazy f*** can just put 5 points into a skill (hydro) and be a God just because they feel like someone else who carefully plans their builds shouldn't be rewarded with a more powerful ("OP") hero. This ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is what is destroying the f***ing genre!

That stealth build for example required the user to put 2 points into sneak, gain the cautious trait (and never lose it) and then find two pieces of equipment with +1 sneak on it JUST for the sneak skill (if you didn't do this you would run out of skill points) alone- not to mention making sure you had the "vindictive" trait, stacked gear that increased movement, pickup 3-4 talents, positioning yourself in a way that the enemies were not looking directly at you so that you could actually go into stealth before attacking, etc etc... Most people never even knew about the build let alone played it because it frankly was too much work to pull off. There is a 95% that the OP himself/herself didn't even know about the build until they read about it in some guide (with other builds such as Zombie) and then after reading the min/max guide and pulling it off, THEN ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about it being OP...

Buuuuuut to answer your question, the "stealth assassin" is no longer viable at all, and the "zombie build" is now nothing more than "drink poison instead of healing potions" and on and on... Put 5 points into hydro and dual wielding and the rest where ever you like now...

EDIT: The original poster never even beat the original game and yet knew about this complicated build and is complaining about it being overpowered in the EE forums... 110% chance he/she read the build and played it on the original... You find "min/max" guides and play them on your first playthrough and then complain about things being "broken"... God help us...

[red255]

He probably just wants the achieves. other wise Id just recommend playing on explorer mode.

the jump from explorer to seasoned is extreme.

[Fruit Slice]

Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:

There were a couple builds in the original that took a LOT of work to pull off, but the payoff was worth it- "Zombie Build", "Backstab Stealth Assassin Build", etc...

Were they "broken"? F*** no... A build that requires a lot more planning and work to pull off SHOULD reward you for being more powerful... "Balance" now means that some lazy f*** can just put 5 points into a skill (hydro) and be a God just because they feel like someone else who carefully plans their builds shouldn't be rewarded with a more powerful ("OP") hero. This ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is what is destroying the f***ing genre!

That stealth build for example required the user to put 2 points into sneak, gain the cautious trait (and never lose it) and then find two pieces of equipment with +1 sneak on it JUST for the sneak skill (if you didn't do this you would run out of skill points) alone- not to mention making sure you had the "vindictive" trait, stacked gear that increased movement, pickup 3-4 talents, positioning yourself in a way that the enemies were not looking directly at you so that you could actually go into stealth before attacking, etc etc... Most people never even knew about the build let alone played it because it frankly was too much work to pull off. There is a 95% that the OP himself/herself didn't even know about the build until they read about it in some guide (with other builds such as Zombie) and then after reading the min/max guide and pulling it off, THEN ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about it being OP...

Buuuuuut to answer your question, the "stealth assassin" is no longer viable at all, and the "zombie build" is now nothing more than "drink poison instead of healing potions" and on and on... Put 5 points into hydro and dual wielding and the rest where ever you like now...

EDIT: The original poster never even beat the original game and yet knew about this complicated build and is complaining about it being overpowered in the EE forums... 110% chance he/she read the build and played it on the original... You find "min/max" guides and play them on your first playthrough and then complain about things being "broken"... God help us...

Your right I never beat the original game. No that wasn't my very first run, we were playing and both our characters weren't enjoyable, so about 30 hours in we restarted and looked into other builds, I saw backstab rouge but I never even looked at the guide I just went on Divinity and made my own build going through the skills and traits based on backstab rouge, how hard is it to come up with that? But about another 40 hours in my character was so broken it made his almost uselss. So we stopped playing because we didn't want to start over again just to get back up to that point, because it's stupid you would have to nerf yourself to be enjoyable. Now that EE has been released we have picked it back up again and trying again, and I wanted to know if sneak 5 was still broken. As I was thinking about making one of our followers just that if it wasn't broke. At the current time we are both ignoring sneak at all like it was the plague. Why do you take such offense in me saying something is broken. Is 80 hours not enough time to see something is easily broken?

[BenchWarmer]

Originally posted by Amaterasu (Ōkami):

So is sneak still broken where you could do super overpowered damage and not even get attacked the next turn?

Putting points into sneak no longer reduces the AP cost, so to answer your question, they have "fixed" it, much to the dismay of a lot of people.

You are not going to be going around in combat sneak/backstabbing multiple times. Simply not enough AP.

[baardvaark]

In a sense, Sneak is still broken in that you can sneak and the AI won't make any attempt to search for you, so if you're the last guy left, you can attack + sneak every turn and kill everything without them doing that. But if you don't abuse it that way, it's pretty crappy now. It was a little on the ridiculous side before with you being able to sneak + attack multiple times a turn, but they definitely overnerfed it. IMO, they should have made Sneak 5 at least reduce AP cost to 3, maybe even 2, and possibly give a backstab damage bonus or something like that.

[Fruit Slice]

Originally posted by baardvaark:

In a sense, Sneak is still broken in that you can sneak and the AI won't make any attempt to search for you, so if you're the last guy left, you can attack + sneak every turn and kill everything without them doing that. But if you don't abuse it that way, it's pretty crappy now. It was a little on the ridiculous side before with you being able to sneak + attack multiple times a turn, but they definitely overnerfed it. IMO, they should have made Sneak 5 at least reduce AP cost to 3, maybe even 2, and possibly give a backstab damage bonus or something like that.

I think instead of just nerfing ap, they actually fixed how sneaking works in combat that would be better. I mean what kind of enemy isnt gonna search for a missing enemy, like really.

[baardvaark]

Originally posted by Amaterasu (Ōkami):

I think instead of just nerfing ap, they actually fixed how sneaking works in combat that would be better. I mean what kind of enemy isnt gonna search for a missing enemy, like really.

It's a hard balance. You don't want the enemy to always just seem to know where you are even after sneaking, but the enemy making some kind of effort to search at least in some situations would be good. At least if you're the last enemy they should search.

[Ssenkrad_II]

As it stands the talent to increase stealth attacks is totally worthless, you would be hurting yourself taking the talent. If they thought that going into sneak, attacking, and then sneaking again was somehow too powerful then remove the talent all together as well as the sneak skill itself as it also now has literally zero applications as "walk in shadows" does what sneak does only better and without a chance of being detected.

Having "all remaining AP is used" would have solved the problem; go into sneak, backstab and all remaining AP is converted into attacks (like flurry) which all hit for an added 50% damage boost. If they felt that it needed more of a handicapt they could have just added a timer for its use like any other ability or have added negative effects added to you for the next turn (ie. you take 25% more damage till you next turn).

What they did do didn't "fix" anything, it just obliterated the "sneak skill" as well as a "guerilla talent" while keeping them in the game still for some reason...

[Mr.Hmm]

Rogue in D:OS was pretty broken.

Rogue in D:OS EE right now is.. weak early on but they catch up fast mid-late game.

[Ssenkrad_II]

Originally posted by Mr.Hmm:

Rogue in D:OS was pretty broken.

Rogue in D:OS EE right now is.. weak early on but they catch up fast mid-late game.

Another person who never beat the original and who has put in less then 10 hours into EE...

Sure glad Larian fixed that "broken" rogue for these people! YeeeeeeaaahhhH!

[Kroma]

you can still do stupid broken op build in the game and i never played the old backstab rogue, i think it is a bit sad that they nerfed a play style that hard while they are still broken build that can be played, i mean anyone should have the choice to make its own play style and it should be viable or OP but not useless, it is your choice after all if you want to play an op build that make your game easier. Atleast you can stick to your own play style and enjoy the game.
They should have made more balance change but not hard nerf on some abilities.

I found only one use of guerilla in a build, but the build being already op it doesnt really make a difference, guerilla stealth doesnt really cut it for the talent / abilities point it cost ( you cant use it in every situtation ).

[Ssenkrad_II]

Everyone who claims it was "broken" never actually beat the game playing as it, if they did they would know that the last few fights and final boss of the game cannot be back stabed and all take reduced damage from daggers.

So what does that mean? Yes, yes the backstab stealth assassin was fun and powerful vs a lot of bosses in the game, BUT for the last bit of the game all he/she could do was stand there with their thumb up their own ass because they were totally worthless! In fact if you were smart you would craft your "sword of planets" and just go at the last bit of the game sword and shield...

The build wasn't broken at ALL if take into account the final battles and boss fight which were actually some of the toughest/fun of the entire game of which your assassin could not help you...