Bad Skill Synergy

[rn_archl0rd]

I think it is poor design to require two abilities to masteer one task. i am referring to throwing grenades. A melee character like a fighter needs a point in Scoundrel with the pinpoint talent in order to be accurate with grenades besides the talent of slingshot to get more distance. A Rogue character needs a point in Man-at-Arms with the slingshot talent talent besides the Scoundrel pinpoint talent to get distance with accuracy from the back rank. Man-at-Arms skill otherewise do not benefit the Scoundrel very much except maybe Battering Ram to quickly cover distance and Helping Hand to put out burning/knocked down party members. The only Scoundrel skills at novice that benefit the fighter are Winged feet to get across burning terrain and Walk In Shadows to get close to mages before starting a fight. Otherwise the points used are wasted to make one task better, throwing grenades far and accurately.

[HugsAndSnuggles]

So, you saying that 20% damage and extra movement from offensive stance is of no use to rouge? With other two abilities you listed there's 3 usefull ones - quite justified, I'd say. Plus there's heal for emergency use if you'd rather have that.

[Ssenkrad_II]

Read my guide... there is more synergy there than there is not.

Tormented souls give +1/2/3 Str AND Dex, Man-at-Arms = Str and Scoundrel = Dex

[strata]

Both my fighter and rogue are pure builds, for example, the scoundrel has all scoundrel skills and talents and the fighter has all fighter skills and talents and it works fine, with great synergy.

You don't need slingshot to throw grenades for one thing, the rogue has very powerful combos where he can sneak up and go invisible to get as close as he wants to enemies, and then throw a grenade in the opening before the battle even starts, and then using cloak and dagger (often times comboed with adrenaline) he teleports away before they can lay a glove on him...yea, sure, the next round he has to rest, but he should be in the back of the line helping the frontal fighters with his bows in support next. The rogue is a very fun character to play in this game, very tricky, and yea, possibly the hardest one to play, because they are so squishy, but really fun!

[Qiox]

I pretty much always put 1 point in scoundrel and take Fast Track at character creation for my Man-at-Arms builds.

A self haste for only 2 AP is great to have on those characters.

[rn_archl0rd]

The main point is why do I have to take both Scoundrel and Man-at-Arms to get the best use of grenades? Why aren't slingshot and pinpoint both under either Scoundrel or Man-at-arms instead of split up?

[Ssenkrad_II]

Originally posted by rn_archl0rd:

Why aren't slingshot and pinpoint both under either Scoundrel or Man-at-arms instead of split up?

I assume because a strong man can throw farther and a percise man more accurate...?

[rn_archl0rd]

But you can build a melee Rogue with strength and a precise Man-at-Arms with dexterity so those limitations are irrelevant as to why the talents are split into two skills.

Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:

Originally posted by rn_archl0rd:

Why aren't slingshot and pinpoint both under either Scoundrel or Man-at-arms instead of split up?

I assume because a strong man can throw farther and a percise man more accurate...?

[Ssenkrad_II]

If you build a melee rogue with Str your scoundrel skills will be terrible and if you build dagger warrior with Dex your man-at-arms skill will be terrible so those examples are totally relevant...?

The way they built this RPG

Man-at-Arms = Str based = Talents based off of that mindset = Talent to increase throw distance (ie. Str based man-at-arms talent)
Scoundrel = Dex based = Talents are based off of that mindset = Talent to increase accuracy of thrown (ie. Dex based scoundrel talent)

[Saya]

Just create hybrid with 7str 7dex 6spd, use dual weapons and skills from both trees (but knife must be in right hand), use your nades and stop crying.
I dont like 1 thing - they took out my rocket jump from Man-at-Arms.

[rn_archl0rd]

Originally posted by ..:

Just create hybrid with 7str 7dex 6spd, use dual weapons and skills from both trees (but knife must be in right hand), use your nades and stop crying.
I dont like 1 thing - they took out my rocket jump from Man-at-Arms.

I'm not crying but trying to understand the logic of having a weapon skill that requires points in an ability you may not want just to maximize its utility. If you are playing a pure Rogue or pure Fighter you shoouldn't need to put points into a skill that you don't want in order to get one specific talent that should be part of your skill set. That is all I am saying. For hybrid characters it doesn't matter.

[Saya]

Originally posted by rn_archl0rd:

I'm not crying but trying to understand the logic of having a weapon skill that requires points in an ability you may not want just to maximize its utility.

1 reason - perk @lone wolf@. If some skill trees will have same perks then lone wolf characters will be very imbalanced and op. Its like dnd building.

[Xenon]

Originally posted by rn_archl0rd:

I'm not crying but trying to understand the logic of having a weapon skill that requires points in an ability you may not want just to maximize its utility. If you are playing a pure Rogue or pure Fighter you shoouldn't need to put points into a skill that you don't want in order to get one specific talent that should be part of your skill set. That is all I am saying. For hybrid characters it doesn't matter.

I disagree. The grenade talents do not belong to any skill set. Anyone can be a grenadier. If you wish to go down that path then you have to make the necessary adjustments. Its not hard to understand. The idea a pure rogue or pure fighter SHOULD have grenades as part of their skillset is illogical.

Not everything should sync up perfectly for convenience.

(And besides, it's only 1 point. ♥♥♥♥♥♥, I have a 1 point in damn-near all skills for all my characters. It's a heavy magic fantasy setting. The flexiblity is needed, in my opinion. Not sure how well I would have done if I didn't have every one summoning spiders every fight haha!)