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If it had been on the wiki, or some "regular" fan-made homepage, I might have given it a try.
Thanks for the effort though. Hopefully someone will put it to good use.
https://chrest.github.io/
I don't like spreadsheet for planners, especially when I want to have a level by level idea.
@Ninja:
so far I like it a lot. Using a sheet this way leaves a lot of wiggle room during play to swap some things around depending on what you need.
For some people spreadsheets can be daunting, especially one designed by someone else. I think you did a good job making it look simple to use, and it is well laid out. I haven't looked into the gear section yet, because I should really do that alongside a game, but it does look like the most complicated bit at first glance.
All in al is pretty in depth and seems useful. My suggestions for additions would be:
- Since you allow for level changing, perhaps set a small list in the sheet that displays the amount of points one would have available to spend on attributes, talents, etc..
- A page that includes the followers with auto info would be nice, so not everyone will have to add them by hand themselves.
- Some people will want to play around with team composition for when they get into tactician and honor mode, it would be nice to have one page displaying the core info on a team setup (4 party members). This could be view only (with room for notes) where any editing would be done in the main sheet (as you have now). That way people could see in one glance if they have all the coverage spread through the team as desired. The info I would be looking for would be a quick glance view for the final numbers: Attributes, Abilities, Talents, skill books
- in Abilities: When emptying all the green(editable) cells, It still displays a 1 in Willpower, Leadership, and pickpocketing.
- Adding a dropdown menu for traits and have the selection add the results to the sheet would be a nice way to prevent the user from having to look things up on the wiki.
- Mouseovers/descriptions for traits/talents would not be necessary, but they would be appreciated and make it easier to use.
That's all a lot of work I'm sure, but I think by allowing for this from the get go and cutting down on the amount of spreads the users will have to add themselve you might increase the chance people will mess around with your spreadsheet more.
@Chrest:
This looks good and easy to use. I like the use of pictures, it makes it easier to navigate, and I like the little extra info tekst you added to the skills. The main thing would be that a user would have to use more pages alongside it to make it work well while filling it out. This seems like a site that would be used mostly by people who really know this game well and have played a lot already. I would recommend making it noob friendly, this will also suit the players who have played before but have been away a while. It's a solid core, but for user friendliness there are a few things missing.
- First thing I noticed is that there is no option to save your creation. Whoops, lost some progress there because I thought I would be able to come back to work on the first character after I setup my followers. So suggestions: either give a warning on the selection page that you can work on one character at a time and will have to manually save by making a screenshot, or have it be able to save in some way.
- Even better would be for the page to remember the input for multiple characters. Because just as the case with Ninja's sheet, I am missing the option to view a team setup to easier tweak my point spreading between roles.
- I do see that it keeps the skills selected across different characters, going through all the tabs to make sure they are deactivated can seem like to much of a hassle for some people (I know it's not that much work in the grand scheme of things, but you know people). If one tab is forgotten it might screw up the end results. A "reset all" button (Not a bad addition in general), or only keeping the specific selection for the previous character would be good.
- To cut down on the user needing to use wiki pages and searching alongside it, there could be some core info displayed. Such as: How many points to spend where you gain each level, The skillbooks the followers start out with from the get go, etc.
- You get to skills before you get to abilities. Diving into the fun stuff first seems great, but it does require some back and forth between tabs this way. Easy would be to first pick abilities, and then have highlighted in skills which ones the character would be able to pick as is. This way the user is sure he/she isn't accidentally forgetting something and causing errors in the final build.
- The followers start out with some skills. It would be nice if there was a tekst/picture to show which ones those are.
- That speedrun guide you mention at the bottom? Make it clickable, or provide a link elsewhere :)
- Last but not least: It would look very professional to add mouseovers with information/description about the skills and talents. This way there would be minimal searching needed and the site would be able to be used as a resource of sorts in itself. I honestly think keeping this as self contained as possible (with little need for the user to switch tabs and forget about/get distracted/get bored/quit) would really add to the viability of this site as a much used resource.
- Okay really the last, but it is not a suggestion to improve and more of an end goal for what some uses may be looking for. It will be a lot of work and you might not be up for that so take this as just that. For newer/casual players a really cool thing would be to also add a leveling simulator. Start at level X, distribute your points, add skill books were able -> level up by one, rinse and repeat. I can see a lot of people exploring builds this way, and can really help a less experienced player get a feel for when and where to spend points without being overwhelmed.
Add the option to skip levels, and save up points. This could also be useful if you don't want to plan each level, but do have a solid plan to pick certain things at certain levels of the game.
First, this was made with guide makers in mind. It's not really something that I was thinking would help "newbies" on its own, because newbies have no idea whatsoever what skills are good and which aren't. It is possible to save your creation: that was the main use of this script ^^ (to refer to a build from a guide). For instance, here's an example of a lonewolf ranger https://chrest.github.io/#v1-en;c1;scfqsihnFJMVW_R;k79cilDJyKV;a1114411441144444411;inghlikmgf7n7j51nlgi5d00gjdjgl;tp6K0Ab5;b000a000
Having up to 4 characters at the same time, having a reset button and stuff like that are definitively good avices, and if I notice guide makers using this builder, I might spend some time bettering it. Not very likely however, but thanks for your input. (I made the builder before my speedrunning guide, so there was no URL at the time, and I'm not sure that if I update the script the mention will stay as I don't really need advertisement all things considered)
About tooltips, the thing is if I add full information and tips, not only this script will definitively look more like a guide, but it will have to be translated in all languages. Good idea, but that's far down the road.
Two final comments.
One, skills before abilities is my intention. Abilities are secondary to skills: you pick abilities to pick the skills you want. Most of the time, abilities do nothing alone. It's better to set your skill selection in stone (sure, it may lead to impossibilities if you stretch too thin) than to set your abilities selection in stone and then artificially feel limited in your skill selection. You don't care about abilities, you care about skills. Plus, the skill selection is just there to highlight power spikes in the build. Perhaps there should be some warnings if you selected a skill but that skill could not be taken in your build (I don't think there is such a thing atm), but skills are what you aim for, not abilities.
Two, I do not think a level simulator is a good idea. It is a character planner, not a character simulator. I want users to plan the skills they want (as I consider this the most important thing in builds), and adjust around this. Building level by level forces you to be a little bit blind (you are not seeing the overall build from far away, you are stuck myopic against each and every level as you go along). Reducing the building process to less clicks is a good idea however, and I think that it should be possible to automate way more around skill selection (auto filling abilities required).
I was having trouble figuring out how to best to deal with the equipment. There are so many variations which made creating something that was simple yet full customized while optimizing space was a pain. I'm open to better ways to go about it but this was the best solution I could come up with.
Responses to suggestions in order:
- It looks like I forgot to put the running counter on the talents section in there but the attributes section does have it in the form of used / unused. I could also increase the font size of it so that it is more noticeable.
- This is something I was planning on doing once the primary sheet was squared away. I didn't want to have to do the same work 6 times everytime I encounted a bug :D
- This is a great idea! I will have to work on a layout for it once everything has been finished and cleaned up.
- As to the abilities section. Willpower and Leadership have a one under the trait section which hasn't been fully developed. Pickpocketing has a 1 from the equipment section so you'd have to clear it there as well.
- Looks like we are on the same page with traits to. I haven't gotten around to implementing traits but drop down boxes will definitly be a thing!
- I was planning on doing this for each static cell but I'm not sure how I'd go about that with the dynamic cells. This does make sense though so you don't have to wiki it. I will have to do a bit of research on this and think it over a bit.
Thanks!
Thanks for the compliment though!