EE Fighter Build Review

[toadbat]

Hi all, I am going to be playing with my gf who wants to play a stock Wayfarer. I have gone back and forth between two build ideas and wanted your opinions on my fighter build. The stats below are forecasted to level 21, there are 4 Ability points left at that level that are unused. The idea is a dual wielding high mobility melee/off-tank. My other idea was a Pyro/Geo Wizard, but this looked more fun. Please share your thoughts, ideas and criticisms. Thanks!

Attribute
Strength 15
Dexterity 5
Inteligence 5
Constitution 9
Speed 9
Perception 5

Abilities
Man-at-arms 5
Dual Wield 5
Aerotheurge 1
Leadership 2
Body Building 3
Scoundrel 1
Witchcraft 1
Willpower 3

Talent
Bully 1
Leech 1
Zombie 3
Bigger and Bette 7
Talent Trade 11
Opportunitst 15
Weather the Storm 19

[Qiox]

High int makes no sense on a melee char. You wont be able to hit anything with Str or Dex based weapons with your stats like that.

[toadbat]

Thanks for the catch. I pasted the wrong attributes :P Anyhow, I edited and fixed that.

[Qiox]

I would get Opportunist earlier. The enemy AI does not attempt to avoid getting hit with opportunity attacks. You can land quite a few of them throughout the game making it better to take it early. Bigger and Better is something you take later when there's absolutely nothing else you need.

[toadbat]

Ok, thanks Qiox. I swapped the two (Opportunist at 7 and Bigger adn Better at 14). I appreciate the input!

[Kivan]

Fighter level 16

Attributes (base + gear)
Strength 10 + 10 = 20
Dexterity 5 + 4 = 9
Intelligence 5 + 4 = 9
Constitution 5 + 4 = 9
Speed 13 + 6 = 21
Perception 5 + 6 = 11

Abilities (base + gear = goal) (there may be other modifiers than gear)
Two-handed 4 + 0 = 4
Body Building 3 + 2 = 6
Willpower 3 + 1 = 6
Aerotheurge 1
Expert Marksman 1
Geomancer 1
Hydrosophist 2
Man-At-Arms 4
Pyrokinetic 1
Scoundrel 2
Witchcraft 2
Leadership 2 + 0 = 3
Loremaster 2 + 3 = 5

Talents essential
Bully
Leech
Lone Wolf

Talents optional
Morning Person (for Honor mode)
Opportunist
Swift Footed
Zombie (Awesome, yes, but can't use healing pots)

[Toha]

Why limit yourself to just melee dd? Go hybrid.
str 11
dex 5
int 11
con 5
spd 8
per 5
Stat boosting gear is not uncommon, so getting 15 str and 15 int for maximum cooldowns will not be chore.

Dual-wielding 4.
Since level 5 just cuts the autoattack cost, you can safely skip it and use those 5 skillpoints for something else - improve saving throws, for instance.
Bodybuilding 2
Willpower 2
Yes, the saving throws are fairly low, however 4 men party can afford that and dual lonewolf party will have more skillpoints to spend on saving throws.
Aerotheurge 2
You can leave it at 1 and use just 3 spells. I' m using 5 novice spells and the air elemental for kamikaze stunning.
Geomancer 1
Hydrosophist 2
Level 2 just for water of life. The way it works, it's also a mass healing spell.
Man-At-Arms 4
4 just for flurry. Shackles of pain just aren't worth the trouble. 3 if you don't need flurry.
Pyrokinetic 2
Level 2 to use wildfire for 4 ap (minor) and smoke screen for 5 ap. Breaking line of sight makes fighting stupidly easy.
Scoundrel 1
Witchcraft 4
Level 4 for soulsap. This skill is excellent for boss fights. Otherwise, leave it at 2 (destroy summon).
This leaves you with 2 unspent skillpoints at level 20.

Far out man
Bully
Opportunist
Parry master
Elemental affinity (my personal choice to buff up fury + oath of desecration then dish out crippling blow in one turn)
Two remaining talents are optional.

Overall, squishy with average mobility, but with incredible utility and good enough damage output.

[Chrest]

Originally posted by Toha:

Dual-wielding 4.
Since level 5 just cuts the autoattack cost, you can safely skip it and use those 5 skillpoints for something else - improve saving throws, for instance.

It's just wrong.

Without investment, when you dual wield two 3 AP weapons, your AA cost 6 AP and you get a 20% damage penalty. Therefore, dualwielding is ♥♥♥♥ with no investment (it's better to wield one weapon and attack twice with it).

The first point reduces the AP cost by 1 AP, typically going from 6 to 5. It's improving dualwielding by 20% (you do 20% more damage per AP).

The second point reduces the cost by 2 AP. It's improving dualwielding by 25%.

The third reduces the penalty from 20% to 10%, so you deal 90% damage instead of 80%, which is a 12.5% improvement.

The fourth nullify the penalty, so you go from 90% damage to 100% (full) damage. That's 11.1% improvement.

The last point reduces AP cost by one, so you go from 4 AP autoattacks (AAs) to 3 AP. That's a 33.33% improvement.

Even if your look at the improvement per ability point (divide by the ability point cost), you are looking at

20% improvement per point for the first one
10% improvement per point for the second one
4.16% third one
2.775% fourth
6.66% fifth.

Therefore, there's no reason to stop at 4 in dualwielding. It is is the worst investment of them all.

Generally, dualwielding is best invested up to 2 (it is when it is justifiable to dualwield compared to one-handed) or all the way up to 5. Nothing else.

[Toha]

These calculations of damage per ap for dual-wielding only apply to autoattack-based gameplay. As I stated above, this is hybrid - both fighter and mage, therefore it does not just deal damage, but also disables, heals, removes status effects, creates surfaces. Short version: this build is NOT supposed to use autoattacks. At all. Spend those ap to create smoke or freeze someone.
Besides, +dual-wielding belts aren't uncommon, so here's a way to reach 5 dual-wielding and pummel away.

[Chrest]

Fair enough I guess, since AAs are generally the last things you go for, there's not much reason to grab the last point in dualwielding if you have plenty of other things to do.

I wouldn't take 4 in witchcraft (you left that open as suggestion), which doesn't really leave a lot of spells that require high INT to be effective (Water of Life being the most demanding one I guess), as many of them have no requirement whatsoever (smokescreen, elemental summon...).

Do you start your build as hybrid from the get go, or do you start as a warrior or a mage?
Personally, I can see you starting as a warrior, and grow that side until level 12 (flurry), and only then invest in INT. I don't really see starting as a mage because it makes way more sense to get another mage master spell after you get your first at level 15.

[Toha]

Hybrid from the start. 7, 5, 7, 5, 6, 5. First, 8 int, then up str and int to 10, then spd to 8 and lastly, 11 strength and 11 int, just to reduce the need for stat boni from gear. And I wear + speed robes to get that extra ap. Gameplay wise - mage with man-at-arms disables and occasional melee finishers (it makes sense to carry two-hander until dual wielding 2) + damage bonus from power stance until level 6.

[Ssenkrad_II]

Dual Wielding level 6 (5 base +1 from belt) will add 5% base damage bonus on top of everything that was already mentioned (which procs into skills obviously)...

If you are interested in hybrids check out my guide, it has the best information around on them...

[Toha]

Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:

If you are interested in hybrids check out my guide, it has the best information around on them...

That's exactly where I learned how to build a character in EE, Ssenkrad. Thanks, by the way :)
Level 6 with dual-wielding isn't worth it in my oppinion. Hybrids are already skillpoint hungry and one would have to sacrifice something to get to lvl5 - leave saving throws at 1 or refrain from level 4 magic school/man-at-arms. I'd turn my attention to it at level 21, not sooner.