Dual wielding clarification

[PanicButton]

-I know Dual wielding ability makes it more viable to use weapons in both hands, but I still need to put points into one handed (for dual wielding daggers/swords) or wands (for dual wielding wands) to make them effective?

-Do these abilities influence anything else than the basic attack damage? Do they influence skill damage/AP cost?

-Does the game sum up the AP cost of both weapons? Or the damage?

[-Nomade-]

- no need to take both "dual wield" and "one hand", as they don't stack (except for wands, i think). Just choose one or the other.

- Yes, AP cost will be reduce by 1 at lvl 1, and another 1 at lvl 5. This make an attack with dual daggers to cost only 3 AP at lvl 5.

- Damages are counted separately, so the status chances can proc separately, as the chances to hit, and to crit.
This makes dual wield much more powerful than a single one, for daggers at least.

As dual wielding means two differents sets of bonuses and elemental effect, i don't see any reason to play with only one dagger...

Edit : note that AP cost for dual dagger attack may be a bit "expensive" in early game, making the typical "dual dagger scoundrel" a little useless at first, compare to warriors or mages. But after a while, the scoundrel will be able to attack several times in his turn, with great damages when backstabbing

[PanicButton]

Why does *wands* and *dual wield* stack, while others don't? Sorry, you don't sound too sure :)

I rolled a rogue/mage hybrid. I'm pretty useless in fights. Attacking costs a fortune, and I also have to walk behind the enemy. The mage spells are pretty weak....

GF rolled a warrior/witch...she's kickin' asses all over the place and self sustaining.

Starting to regret my decision...it sure looked great in my head though :)

[-Nomade-]

You're right : i've not tried "dual wield" with wands myself :)
But if it hasn't changed, "one hand" and "DW" stack with wands, i'm absolutely sure ^^
Don't ask why, is a bit weird, truly ;)

Hybrid may have difficulties because of the main attribute : you won't be able to maximize Intell AND Dex, as you also need speed, and perception...
So your skills are a bit less powerfull than for a specialized character.
But on the other side, you have skills that can make interesting synergies, like the teleportation for a Man-at-arms, or for a Scoundrel with Wind-up-Toy, or ways to exploit the environment for a melee class, etc...

Besides, Mages are not DPS in this game : their best use is for controlling enemies, or buff/debuff.

I don't play hybrids that have different main attributes myself (no yet ^^), but i'd say they may be interesting if "half-hybrid" : an archetype with just a little from another class. Skills at lvl 1 will be enough, just to have some control skills, or buff/debuff, that may help your "main" melee class.

[PanicButton]

Originally posted by -Nomade-:

you won't be able to maximize Intell AND Dex, as you also need speed, and perception...

Do I need perception? I thought that's needed for ranged weapons (and spotting)
I know I need dex and speed for rogue, and int for mage, but I completely neglected perception and constitution...

Originally posted by -Nomade-:

I don't play hybrids that have different main attributes myself (no yet ^^), but i'd say they may be interesting if "half-hybrid" : an archetype with just a little from another class.

This is something I was actually giving thought to yesterday, having a dominant "class". Not sure which one would be better though...main rogue with a little mage or the other way around.

[-Nomade-]

Originally posted by PanicButton:

Do I need perception?

Perception is a pretty important attribute, because it counts for AP amounts, and Initiative (as do Speed).
A high Initiative grants you to play first, which is priceless to cast all your controls ASAP.
AP are obviously highly needed, below 8, things are often more complicated ^^

Besides, you'll gain crit chances, and ability to detect traps and hidden secrets (chests, doors...)

[Theinvoker]

rogue/mage = warrior/mage. Both needs 2 attributes to be maxed. If your rogue is weak is because of the daggers. At beginning you need too many AP. You have to quickly get level 2 to have 2ap reduction on basic attacks.
You have to attack always from behind. Attacking from behind you will do more damage than a warrior.
Most Important abilities are not the ones that does damage. You must have Cloak and dagger and Walk in shadows.
The first allows you to position behind enemies and the second one allows to not be focused by enemies after your turn

[Apoc]

I'm currently playing Dual Wands.

-The Wand ability says it works for main hand wand only so would be kind of a waste unless your main hand wand is really better or you really have nothing else to put point in. In a perfect situation maybe it's better to put 1+2 points in Wand than the fifth/sixth in dual wield for example but because of element resistance and other factors it's hard to tell. Not sure about single-handed if it works for both or none when dual-wielding since it does not specify.

-Wands and spells can't miss so you don't really need perception on a mage or a melee character. It also affect critical chance and starting AP but Speed affect starting and turn ap while also affecting initiative and movement. As long as you have perception on one character for traps and hidden stuff you are set, preferably on a character using bow/crossbow. So you should invest in the main stat (Str, Dex or Int.) and Perception for a ranger, Constitution for a tank and Speed for the rest. You might need to put a point or two in the others if you feel you need a bit more hp, starting AP or movement for example but items could give bonuses to that.

-Hybrid could probably work to a certain point (look at the Shadowblade starting class.) because some spells are not stronger with intel, only a shorter cooldown (and crit chance I think) and it's the ability level itself that state the AP cost. So a Str or Dex character could still work out some buffs or debuffs but less damage spells unless it's against something with a really high physical resistance and an elemental weakness. (But then archers have arrows, others have bombs or scrolls.)

[PanicButton]

Originally posted by Theinvoker:

rogue/mage = warrior/mage. Both needs 2 attributes to be maxed. If your rogue is weak is because of the daggers. At beginning you need too many AP. You have to quickly get level 2 to have 2ap reduction on basic attacks.
You have to attack always from behind. Attacking from behind you will do more damage than a warrior.
Most Important abilities are not the ones that does damage. You must have Cloak and dagger and Walk in shadows.
The first allows you to position behind enemies and the second one allows to not be focused by enemies after your turn

Yeah...my AP situation is improving. I got walk in shadows, but have no idea what cloak and dagger is. The vendor is not selling anything like that.
I have the bleeding one though....not much use for it until now, since most of my enemies were undead....I also just got the one that weakens enemies, plus the one that speeds you up from the pyro tree. Starting to get the hang of it :)

(still the least useless in my party in combat though)

Btw we can't advance the murder questline (the leads just stopped), but we're having a blast doing all the other stuff :) Incredible game.

[-Nomade-]

You'll find advanced skills later, from merchants, but also from loot.

Some powerfull skills are even hidden at specific spots, and it's easy to miss them if you're not meticulous in your exploration...

There is a skill very useful for rogue, and apparently it can be found only in a specific location, or at least very rarely elsewhere : The "Eye Gouge" skillbook, you can find it on the ground after defeating Pontius in Black Cove

"Cloak & Dagger" is another Adept skill for scoudrel : you can vanish in a smoke cloud, and teleport yourself where you want in a certain range. Useful, but situational : the cost is 4 AP, and with good speed, you can reach the same spot for 4 AP of movement, so...

Another very useful skill of the rogue is the Adept skill "Wind-up toy". You can summon an explosive pet near you, then the aerotheurge character (if different) teleport the pet near an enemy group. It's like an explosive grenade, but accurate ^^

Also remind that you can easily increase your rogue damage if dual wielding, by crafting bottle of poison + dagger. This add posion damages to your dagger. You can also sharpen your daggers.
But beware : poison can heal certain opponents...

[PanicButton]

Found Eye Gouge in the first city...I think I stole it from the legion trainer. The extra one from Pontius I gave to the mute guy :)

Still haven't seen C&D or Wind-up Toy, but will keep an eye out for them, thanks :)

It's shaping up to be a pretty nasty character.