Tales of Symphonia

Tales of Symphonia

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patpatyos 17 ENE 2017 a las 8:57 a. m.
Symphonia Prequel of Phantasia *SPOILER*
List of things to look at and pay attention to when playing of Symphonia being a Prequel to Phantasia


WARNING SPOILER FOR BOTH GAMES Symphonia Phantasia


1. Both take place on the same Planet

2. The land of both Tethe'ala and Sylvarant put together make up the world of phantasia and Dawn of the New World makes this even more obvious.

3. The ending of the first game ends with the naming of the world tree this is meant as a nod to the players who already played Phantasia and knows about the True name of the Tree which is named Yggdrasill in Phantasia referencing Mithos Yggdrasill.

4.Locations like Mizuho Village and Ninja Village being related to each other and the new descendants of the Fujibayashi family in Phantasia

Other Locations like Ymir Forest, Heimdall, and Treant Forest keeping there names also ORIGIN can also be found in the same location in Symphonia and Phantasia which is very obvious in its location being the same as symphonia.

5. Summon Spirits keeping there names and lore.

6. Dhaos who is now the leader of Derris-Kharlan in Phantasia knows about the use of the Mana Cannon that was used in the past which he could of learned it from "Kratos" or from what is left about it on Derris Kharlan and how he could get ahold of a mana seed.


Comparison of locations with Dawn of the New World and Phantasia http://i.imgur.com/mpMv9.png Notice how Ymir Forest of Elves is same location, how Yggdrasil Tree is in same location as where it sprouted at end of symphonia at tower of salvation.

Also the most obvious is the Ice Island of Flannoir and Friezkel being the same place


Theres also more then this hidden in Symphonia and Phantsasia about each other



About upcoming Tales of Berseria being prequel to Zesitiria

In Berseria you get Eizen which is related to Edna in Zesitiria similar to how Suzu Fujibayashi is descendant of Sheena Fujibayshi of Symphonia as well as alot of the Zesitiria Locations come back like they did in Symphonia for Phantasia which will show the origins of those locations like in Symphonia for the Elves and Derris Kharlan
Última edición por patpatyos; 17 ENE 2017 a las 9:04 a. m.
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Mostrando 1-15 de 22 comentarios
RAY DO IT (Washed up) 18 ENE 2017 a las 1:58 a. m. 
neat :creepysheep:
Aifread 18 ENE 2017 a las 7:37 a. m. 
I also recall a book in one of the libraries in Phantasia talking about the two moons, Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.

Dhaos is kind of an anomaly as we don't know what kind of life was left on Derris Kharlan after the events of Symphonia. It seems odd that anything could come out of that soulless society unless Kratos did something to their Cruxis crystals. Phantasia also never explained why they needed a seed from the Giant Tree in the first place. Prior to Symphonia, it was assumed Derris Kharlan was a planet in need of mana similar to Aselia, not a wandering comet made of mana.

Then there's the 4,000+ years unaccounted for between the two games. We don't know how Odin, Thor, and Fenrir rose to power and went to war, though the placement of the Flamberge at the end of Symphonia certainly offers a clue, since Dirk's house is around where the Tower of Flames would be.

Lastly, there is a bit of irony in Yggdrasil's warning that even if Lloyd's group revived the Giant Kharlan Tree, another war would kill it since that's exactly what happens (or almost happens) in Phantasia. And given the aforementioned unexplained events between Symphonia and Phantasia, it may have happened then too.

EDIT: After looking at the map, Dirk's house and Triet are not where I thought they were. That adds another mystery about how the three powers got their hands on the three parts of the Eternal Sword or how summon spirit-like entities came to guard the two swords, though the latter could be Origin's doing.
Última edición por Aifread; 18 ENE 2017 a las 11:22 p. m.
patpatyos 18 ENE 2017 a las 7:53 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Aifread:
I also recall a book in one of the libraries in Phantasia talking about the two moons, Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.
Yes that is one more example in Phantasia talking about a time when the world was split
Aifread 18 ENE 2017 a las 11:05 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por patyos:
Publicado originalmente por Aifread:
I also recall a book in one of the libraries in Phantasia talking about the two moons, Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.
Yes that is one more example in Phantasia talking about a time when the world was split
Actually it's just talking about the current moons and makes no reference to a time when the world was split. Remember Phantasia came out in 1995 and the PS1 version (which all later versions are based on) was '98. They had no plans for Symphonia back then, especially considering the Symphonia dev team didn't even exist yet. Sylvarant's moon was called Tethe'alla according to one of the books in Symphonia (which is why Genis asked Sheena if she was from the moon) and Tethe'alla's was presumably called Sylvarant. When the worlds fused, the names of the two worlds weren't needed anymore but the names of the two moons stayed. The moons are visible in the very last scene of Symphonia and all through Phantasia in the battle scene background.
Última edición por Aifread; 18 ENE 2017 a las 11:11 p. m.
henne 22 ENE 2017 a las 7:15 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Aifread:
I also recall a book in one of the libraries in Phantasia talking about the two moons, Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.

Dhaos is kind of an anomaly as we don't know what kind of life was left on Derris Kharlan after the events of Symphonia. It seems odd that anything could come out of that soulless society unless Kratos did something to their Cruxis crystals. Phantasia also never explained why they needed a seed from the Giant Tree in the first place. Prior to Symphonia, it was assumed Derris Kharlan was a planet in need of mana similar to Aselia, not a wandering comet made of mana.

I don't remember which game (there were two that played after ToP) but one of them (Narikiri Dungeon, iirc) did explain a bit more about Dhaos and Derris-Kharlan. There was a war, too, which drained the Mana of the planet or something like this.
Aifread 22 ENE 2017 a las 6:17 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por henne:
Publicado originalmente por Aifread:
I also recall a book in one of the libraries in Phantasia talking about the two moons, Sylvarant and Tethe'alla.

Dhaos is kind of an anomaly as we don't know what kind of life was left on Derris Kharlan after the events of Symphonia. It seems odd that anything could come out of that soulless society unless Kratos did something to their Cruxis crystals. Phantasia also never explained why they needed a seed from the Giant Tree in the first place. Prior to Symphonia, it was assumed Derris Kharlan was a planet in need of mana similar to Aselia, not a wandering comet made of mana.

I don't remember which game (there were two that played after ToP) but one of them (Narikiri Dungeon, iirc) did explain a bit more about Dhaos and Derris-Kharlan. There was a war, too, which drained the Mana of the planet or something like this.
Ah, interesting. I haven't played any of the spinoffs myself. I do have the PSP remake of Narikiri Dungeon, so maybe I'll check that out. I know the new character they added in that version shows up in the included remake of Phantasia (which I did play) and she has some connection to Dhaos as well. I imagine there might be something in those "Tales of Fandom" VN-style games too. I know the second volume of that gave more details about the Kharlan War and tied up some loose ends with what Kratos, Zelos, Mithos, and Yuan were all up to in the second/final act of Symphonia.

EDIT: After reading up on Narikiri Dungeon, it seems they explain Dhaos's backstory on Derris Kharlan, including the existence of multiple countries, a war, a mana cannon, and a world tree. They appear to be drawing some type of parallel between the role of Dhaos's country and that of Thor's in that they were both neutral parties trying to stop a conflict between two other countries. Still dunno if there's any info to go on concerning the rise of Thor/Fenrir/Odin though.

Narikiri Dungeon also refers to Derris Kharlan as a planet, not a comet and there's still nothing to go on for how its world tree grew. I suppose it was always possible for Mithos to turn Derris Kharlan into a habitable world once Martel and the two worlds stopped depending on it and the great seed for Mana, and it is where the elves came from originally, so perhaps it's possible that it just generated a new world with new life. This is getting way too deep for any of the lore to explain though, and I doubt it ever will be explained.
Última edición por Aifread; 22 ENE 2017 a las 7:07 p. m.
TNMBLoneWolf 17 AGO 2017 a las 2:29 p. m. 
Nice theory but I don't think that ToS is a prequel to ToP and these are my points to why I think ToS isn't a prequel:

WARNING THERE WILL BE SPOILERS TO BOTH TALES OF SYMPHONIA AND TALES OF PHANTASIA.

1. In ToS during a scene between Zelos and Sheena, Zelos tells Sheena that he is taking her out and that so she should wear something different from her normal clothes. What Sheena wears depends on what She or Zelos says. But in one instance, Sheena will wear a replica of Suzu Fujibashi's clothes, and when asked by Zelos what she is wearing She will say that she is wearing her traditional garb that her ancestors wore in the past. Which means that Sheena is not Suzu's ancestor but the other way around.

2. The way the Eternal Sword is made in ToS is slightly different to the way it is made in ToP. In ToS the Flamberge is wielded by Kratos while Dirk makes the Vorpal Blade and the sword are fused together by Origin. But, the first wielder of the Eternal Sword is Mithos so Lloyd has to wear a Cruxis Crystal to wield it or he will die. Lloyd also gets the Mystic Arte Falcon Cres. While in ToP the Flamberge and Vorpal Blade are sentient beings, the Vorpal Blade takes on the form of a wolf-like beast when you fight it and the Flameberge takes on the form of a female warrior holding the Flameberge. After their fights the swords award Cress/Cless with an Arte being Distortion Blade from the Vorpal Blade and Chaos Blade from the Flameberge. The two swords with a diamond pact ring are made into the Eternal Sword by Origin. The Eternal Sword when made gives Cress/Cless a new Arte called Lunge or Void shift with the addition of Chaos Distortion Blade and Chaotic Lunge/Chaos shift, Cress/Cless apart from his Mystic Artes Dark Blade and Final Fury learns Final Justice, which looks like an extended Falcon Crest. Also, Lloyd's Eternal Sword is purple while Cress/Cless' Eternal Sword is blue, though it is purple in Tales of Eternia, Tales of Xillia 2 and in the Tales of Phantasia animation.

3. In ToS the World Tree Yggdrasil may only be planted during the end of the game but that does not mean that it is a prequel to ToP, because in ToP Martel IS the World Tree, while in ToS it is never said that Martel becomes the World Tree.

4. The wars that takes place in ToP takes place 100 years in the past from Cress/Cless' time (during the time that Klarth and Arche are from.) while the war that takes place in ToS happens thousands of years before the game present time. So they are unrelated.

5. In ToP the flying machines Cress/Cless and co use are called Rheairds or Rheabirds because the inventors of these machines named it after their daughter Rhea Scarlet. In ToS Rheairds exist and look and operate just like the way they do in ToP. Coincidence? I think not.

Eventhough I still have a lot of things to write, I think I am going to end right here. Because all of my other points have to deal with magitechnology which is a whole topic of its own. But, if anyone here thinks that they could tell me how ToS is a prequel to ToP after reading all of my points above, then tell me because I will not runaway from any comment
Aifread 19 AGO 2017 a las 3:26 p. m. 
1. I dunno which scene you're referring to, but Sheena wears the same clothes as Suzu when she becomes the successor to the chief, a role that Suzu also fills. The ninja village is rich in tradition so it's not unlikely that they've continued that practice for so long.

I also recall a skit in one of the Tales of the World games where Zelos jokes that Suzu could be the great great great great great... granddaughter of Sheena and him (though it could easily be Lloyd depending on your choices in Symphonia and who you ship). In any case, the devs are well aware of how Symphonia fits into the same world as Phantasia: as a prequel.

2. Part of the story of Symphonia is showing how the Eternal Sword was split in three to begin with. The diamond pact ring from Phantasia isn't meant to be the same diamond that drops after the Origin fight in Symphonia. It's the special "Ring of the Pact" necessary to complete the bond with Origin that Dirk makes after Lloyd defeats Kratos in Treantwood. After Lloyd absorbs the Eternal Sword at the destroyed Tower of Salvation, for anyone to wield the Eternal Sword they need the two swords as well as the ring and a pact with Origin. Phantasia also refers to a great duel that was had at Origin's black stone monument.

If you think Phantasia is the prequel, I'd like to hear how the Eternal Sword was split into three and then went back into one before coincidentally being split into the same three despite at least two of the pieces not existing prior to the events of Symphonia (the Vorpal Sword and the Ring of the Pact were both forged by Dirk). Not to mention the fact that Mithos made the damn thing to begin with.

Changes in art direction and design of the sword are irrelevant. They probably based the Symphonia design of the sword on the relatively recent Eternia appearance and as you said later appearances show Cless with the purple one.

3. I don't see the inconsistency here. Martel is a summon spirit-like guardian of Yggdrasil in both Phantasia and the end of Symphonia. She takes on the form of Mithos's sister because of her connection with the Great Seed, same as she appears in Phantasia.

4. No one ever claimed that they were the same war. Yggdrasil tells the party at the Tower of Salvation after they escape Welgaia the first time that even if they succeed in reviving the great tree, another war would destroy it again. This is meant as a prophetic reference to the events of Phantasia.

5. That's actually an accident of the translation. The rheairds are called "rare birds" (レアバード) in Japanese, while Rhea's name is spelled リア. The rheairds aren't intended to be a reference to the character at all. Also they were made/remade by scientists in the future timeline in Phantasia; Rhea and her parents are from the past.
Última edición por Aifread; 19 AGO 2017 a las 5:17 p. m.
patpatyos 19 AGO 2017 a las 5:07 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Aifread:

3. I don't see the inconsistency here. Martel is a summon spirit-like guardian of Yggdrasil in both Phantasia and the end of Symphonia. She takes on the form of Mithos's sister because of her connection with the Great Seed, same as she appears in Phantasia.
.

Keep in Mind also that Lloyd named the World Tree at the end of Symphonia.

Symphonia Dawn of The New World also makes it more obvious why would Lloyd named the Tree Yggdrasill .

http://imgur.com/a/mNm6N

Because "Mithos became the World Tree" and Martel became its Summon Spirit.


Also the World Tree/Yggdrasil didn't exist before Symphonia since before that it was the "Giant Kharlan Tree" from the Kharlan War with its Summon Spirit that we play as in Dawn of the new world and the game revolves around him "Ratatosk" of the Giant Kharlan Tree, which was destroyed prior to the events of Tales of Symphonia
Última edición por patpatyos; 19 AGO 2017 a las 5:28 p. m.
patpatyos 19 AGO 2017 a las 5:27 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TheBlackLoneWolf:
Nice theory but I don't think that ToS is a prequel to ToP and these are my points to why I think ToS isn't a prequel:

3. In ToS the World Tree Yggdrasil may only be planted during the end of the game but that does not mean that it is a prequel to ToP, because in ToP Martel IS the World Tree, while in ToS it is never said that Martel becomes the World Tree.


If Symphonia was a sequel then in phantasia the tree should of been called "Giant Kharlan Tree" and it should of been Ratatosk not Martel.


Publicado originalmente por patyos:
Publicado originalmente por Aifread:

3. I don't see the inconsistency here. Martel is a summon spirit-like guardian of Yggdrasil in both Phantasia and the end of Symphonia. She takes on the form of Mithos's sister because of her connection with the Great Seed, same as she appears in Phantasia.
.

Keep in Mind also that Lloyd named the World Tree at the end of Symphonia.

Symphonia Dawn of The New World also makes it more obvious why would Lloyd named the Tree Yggdrasill .

http://imgur.com/a/mNm6N

Because "Mithos became the World Tree" and Martel became its Summon Spirit.


Also the World Tree/Yggdrasil didn't exist before Symphonia since before that it was the "Giant Kharlan Tree" from the Kharlan War with its Summon Spirit that we play as in Dawn of the new world and the game revolves around him "Ratatosk" of the Giant Kharlan Tree, which was destroyed prior to the events of Tales of Symphonia
Última edición por patpatyos; 19 AGO 2017 a las 5:28 p. m.
Simon 19 AGO 2017 a las 10:52 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por TheBlackLoneWolf:
Nice theory but I don't think that ToS is a prequel to ToP and these are my points to why I think ToS isn't a prequel:

5. In ToP the flying machines Cress/Cless and co use are called Rheairds or Rheabirds because the inventors of these machines named it after their daughter Rhea Scarlet. In ToS Rheairds exist and look and operate just like the way they do in ToP. Coincidence? I think not.
Copied from a source, "While they are practically identical in design and function to the Rheairds of Tales of Symphonia, these machines were invented by human hands, without ever being aware of such historical technology that had become lost to the ages."

PS: There is one more point that I would like to add. In Symphonia, it says the land will die if mana is depleted. But in Phantasia, we can clearly see that mana doesn't really affect the land even though the world is critically lacking in mana.

This "plothole" is linked by the direct sequel of Symphonia, which is "TOS: Dawn of the New World" (called "TOS: Ratatosk Knight" in Japan) The game explain, how someone called Ratatosk decide to "rewrite" the rules of nature, how things work. He said it would take a few thousand years to change their world into a world without necessarily need mana to flourish.
Última edición por Simon; 6 JUL 2018 a las 6:07 a. m.
TNMBLoneWolf 6 JUL 2018 a las 3:48 a. m. 
Okay I get some your points but some the things you guys said are questionable, but before I get to debunking some of points I thought were iffy, I am going to ask you guys these questions.
1. How does summoning go from simply making a vow with a summon spirit in Symphonia to having to put them in a ring in Phantasia?
2. How are Flambergre and Vorpal Sword sentient blades with gods living in them in Phantasia and not in Symphonia? Why is the Eternal Sword sentient in Phantasia, but not in Symphonia? How come Cress knows Space-time artes but Mithos and Lloyd don't, when all three of them have wielded the Eternal Sword?
3. Emil/Ratatosk says that it would take a millennium(Or 1000 years) to erase all mana on the planet. Yet, there is still mana in the Phantasian world which is said to exist 4000 years after the event of Symphonia. How is this possible?

Publicado originalmente por Aifread:
I also recall a skit in one of the Tales of the World games where Zelos jokes that Suzu could be the great great great great great... granddaughter of Sheena and him (though it could easily be Lloyd depending on your choices in Symphonia and who you ship). In any case, the devs are well aware of how Symphonia fits into the same world as Phantasia: as a prequel.
If you actually pay attention to that skit you would see that it is actually leaning in the direction of Phantasia being before Symphonia since Sheena asks if Suzu was a Fujibayashi and was even going to probably say that she must of been the legendary village chief of her village before Zelos started joking around about Suzu being their daughter or great great great granddaughter from the future. This point is supported by her "Successor" title which reads "The successor of the Igakuri style She leads the Mizuho to protect their traditon." And we all know that Sheena does not use the Igakuri style, Suzu does and to make manners worse she dresses like Suzu when the title is equip. Oh, and Sheena does not use any techniques from the Igakuri style in the sequel either. So, there is literally nothing that you can use to prove that Sheena is not Suzu descendant and if you can go ahead.
Publicado originalmente por Simon:
Copied from a source, "While they are practically identical in design and function to the Rheairds of Tales of Symphonia, these machines were invented by human hands, without ever being aware of such historical technology that had become lost to the ages."
I hate to say this, but the information you posted was from a wiki and unless the information was copied it down from a guidebook, taken from something one of the developers said or was just stated in Symphonia it is not credible since the writer could of just been writing with the view point of Symphonia taking place before Phantasia.

P.S I am totally not replying after like 1 year because of research, I am actually replying so late because I forgot all about this post until recently. So, if you guys can answer my 3 questions above then I may start to believe Symphonia takes place before Phantasia but, if you guys can't then I won't believe it.





Última edición por TNMBLoneWolf; 6 JUL 2018 a las 4:06 a. m.
Simon 6 JUL 2018 a las 6:12 a. m. 
You need to rewatch the ending for Dawn of New the World. Ratatosk only said he would rewrite the laws of nature in their world, NOT remove mana. He said Mana will still exist, but mana will not be needed for living things to live
Última edición por Simon; 6 JUL 2018 a las 6:16 a. m.
TNMBLoneWolf 6 JUL 2018 a las 12:04 p. m. 
Oh then I was wrong about the whole removing mana thing then.
Aifread 6 JUL 2018 a las 8:31 p. m. 
There's still a big time gap between the games, so who knows what could have happened to account for all that. The thing with the rings for summons is a pretty minor inconsistency that I'd chalk up more to differences in gameplay design rather than lore. As for the swords, we already know from Symphonia that it's possible to man-make summon spirits (Corrine, who later becomes Verius), so I'd suspect Fenrir and Odin, being highly advanced, could have made those guardian spirits themselves. As for the Eternal Sword, I'd say it's a minor inconsistency and in Symphonia they figured why have a separate sentience in the Eternal Sword when you can just use Origin in the same way. In any case, these differences don't really support which is the prequel and which is the sequel one way or the other. They're just that; minor inconsistencies which you can expect when one game was made almost a decade later. Oh and Lloyd specifically references the potential space-time powers of the Eternal Sword in a skit with Raine. Raine wants to go back in time for obvious reasons, but Lloyd argues against it, saying it's wrong to mess with the past.

As for Sheena and Suzu, you're not making any sense at all. Sheena and Suzu are BOTH successors to the same clan. Nothing you said supports Suzu coming first. They both wear the clothes of successors to the chief of the clan. Sheena's "Successor" title refers to being a successor to her grandfather, not Suzu. Sheena's style of fighting is also called Igaguri in Tales of Symphonia, so the title doesn't make any specific reference to Suzu. Your point about the skit also makes no sense. You're making an unsupported claim that Sheena would've said something about Suzu being her ancestor even though what's actually said in the skit is the opposite? You're grabbing at straws that aren't even there.
Última edición por Aifread; 6 JUL 2018 a las 8:40 p. m.
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