WitE 1 v WitE 2?

[Imhotep]

I'm wondering whether to get Gary Grigsby's War in the East 1, which is currently on sale on Steam, or Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2, which was released a few months ago and would be full price.

Is GGWitE 2 better than GGWitE 1?

[jabgamer]

You can install on multiple computers for your own use.

[mooreshawnm]

The air war is the only reason I haven't purchased this yet. It frightens me. I haven't played WITW at all because of it despite hundreds and hundreds of hours on the old DOS version.

[jabgamer]

You can use the AI assist to run 95% of the air war for you, with you just giving a few top line orders to each air army. You can then start making adjustments if you want to. It eases you into the air game.

[Dorian Gray]

The Air War in WiTE2, despite the hype, is currently crap. Numerous players have put the game on hold and won't play it unit it is fixed, it is that bad.

IMO, they have not release it on Steam yet because too many people would be asking for a refund. Whereas if you buy directly from them, they give no refunds. Just that alone is reason to wait for a Steam release.

[Nukkxx]

WITE2 is way more sophisticated and realistic but somehow I find WITE1 more fun to play. I miss WITE 1 air system. WITE2 air system is too demanding for my brain and I don't like the fact that it is phased(air phase then ground phase). I preferred the old air system. Of course the 2 has many great improvements, but ...

[HB]

Originally posted by TROXTER:

Originally posted by Dorian Gray:

The Air War in WiTE2, despite the hype, is currently crap. Numerous players have put the game on hold and won't play it unit it is fixed, it is that bad.

IMO, they have not release it on Steam yet because too many people would be asking for a refund. Whereas if you buy directly from them, they give no refunds. Just that alone is reason to wait for a Steam release.

Hello.
If you give me permission to question you. I would like to know what is broken.

I am playing a game on PBEM against another player and have started to control my aviation more and more. I don't know what can be broken to be true.

So I would like you to share your knowledge with me at this level.

Thank you kindly to shed some light on this.

(PS) - Even though I would have bought it on steam. I would not have asked for a refund. I find this game well done and look forward to playing my next turn. I am not an expert and I have not played WITE-1 so I cannot tell if the game is faulty.

Thanks for your help.

Air frames lost to operational reasons is to high, the loss per sortie rate from simply flying is not even close to historical rates, and the same AVGAS for Air is used for MOGAS ground units, so you can motorise more Divs and use AVGAS to manoeuvre them, giving you a much greater motorised Army, the Air war is programmed/operates as a 21st cent air war, and not a ww2 air war. The most effective strategy is to ground most of your air and use Ftrs to cover your ground attacks and shoot down enemy planes that attempt to fly ground support. The worst thing you can do, is use air superiority, ( which isa busted game mechanic as it dont do what you expect it to do) as you just rack up operational losses for next to no gains. If you leave the AI to run the air war it burns up fuel, runs into pilot replacement issues as it cannot sustain the loss level as the LW.

There was no air re supply for axis fuel in 41 but you can do it from t1 ( and hardly ever get intercepted as you fly further with fuel that the JU52 could in reality) and be better supplied on the ground,from doing so, so you can do things in game that were logistical impossible to do in real life, so most first few turns are fantasy versions of ww2 as Axis player use air supply to get more out the Panzer spearheads than was possible.

As your playing head to head, did you agree to no motorising of units?, otherwise its quite easy to break a pocket by motorising a small unit to gain the Mps which allows to to open up the pocket, and of course who does not want motorised rail conversion units.......

[HB]

Originally posted by TROXTER:

Would it be fairer to say that the game all just needs some tweaking. Something that will be done with the next few new patches. The game is not broken. The game needs a simple readjustment of some data to make exploiting the loopholes more difficult or even impossible. Would that be more plausible than saying (Broken).

If your thinking your playing a simulation of the Eastern Front, im afraid its broken on many levels, some could be resolved with future patches, ( two patches to date since April is an idea of how long it takes for patches to arrive) but i doubt it. If you look on the forums you will see people generally only play head to head with agreed house rules*to get around the problems, or they simply will not play, and the forum itself is full of players saying they are done until the worst issues are resolved.

Tweaking through patches would enhance problems in say production runs of x weapon system, and they exist all over the place, because it all depends on what data source you think is more correct, so yes some issues can and will be overcome. Map has inaccurate road and rail numbers of miles of road track, so movement is un historic, but that could be resolved as could other smaller problems.

But considering the design choice to have a single fuel for land sea and air translates in strategies that then can be performed without any relation to historical fuel levels for land sea and air means the core reason for playing an operational simulation is crippled by that choice. Germany in game operates is a fully motorised army from 41( compare game truck to manpower levels to USA 1944 and you will see the problem) with capabilities it simply did not have.

The production system is full of problems from a historical point of view, let alone as soon as the game starts the resource base for that production levels changes in game from historical, but your stuck with historical production numbers, even if you dont gain the resources in Russia to make them with, or, you dont get a bump if you gain resources that would have increased them. Use of SU rail is not in game when it provided a third of freight transfer inside the SU, the number of locomotives Germany has is more like railroad tycoon than a reflection of military history, and finding out how many locomotives available each turn is made difficult to stop people seeing how made up it all is.

Then the fuel cost to move a unit is not based on ww2 fuel consumption rates, nor is the logistical system fit for purpose as its a 21st century just in time one that has no relation to any nations ww2 logistical system, free of all political problems lowered efficiency for Germany, uses freight numbers that have basis in historical fact, and makes horse drawn wagons the most cost effective means of moving supplies. Trucks, the core of logistics from the rail roads uses all trucks for all sides, at 2.2t freight capacity, so its an abstraction that means US LL trucks for SU dont have the impact of vastly increasing freight tonnage ( US truck and trailer was c4.5t capacity by then) late war that gave them to deep penetration capacity they could not achieve on their domestic trucks, because there is no yearly modifier for truck tonnage, so late game suffers as SU is logistically denied the extra forward lift that LL gave it.

Germany starts of better than historical, as its 2.2t average is better as do its allies, ( it also has all its Div sitting on massive stockpiles, which the logistic fairy allows it to move with them wherever they go till used up, exactly who moves it all with the unit is a mystery) and never gets better, but still has weapons systems using more and heavier weight of munitions, so by late war the freight tonnage of munitions has gone up by around a factor of 4 while freight capacity to supply it has stayed the same.

Sortie numbers flown by SU.

1941 - 459 221
1942 - 852 691
1943 - 885 416
1944 - 993 050
1945 (up to May) - 617 758
From statistical digest "Soviet aviation in the Great Patriotic War in numbers" (1962)
http://stsokol.ru/vvs_tsifra/index.html

Broken into day and night sortie.
1941 - 259686 day and 9879 night
1942 - 365060 day and 206070 night
1943 - 474343 day and 203514 night
1944 - 630468 day and 186579 night
1945 - 448855 day and 120307 night

Loss per sortie was under 1% every year except 1943 when it was 1.3%.

Does that look like what you see in game?.


WiTE1 is a far Superior game design and playing experience imo.

[TheCr33pur]

I didnt put much efforts into this yet, but i wouldnt buy the second series for that price. I mean, they didnt do much to it. For those who own first series, should get a discount for that or for free. I would say no, unless you dont care, huge waste of money there!