Carefree Melody or Grimmchild for Pantheon?

[Naophae]

Hello :)

I'm trying to decide what to do re: Grimm Troupe's ending. Half the players I speak with tell me to go with NKG for the charm, and the other half tells me to go with the banishment route because that charm would be better specifically because it helps with Pantheon fights.

Since this is my first playthrough, I've never tried either charm, so would a few kind souls be able to tell me whether Carefree Melody would indeed be better for when I get to tackle the Pantheon?

A few things to consider:
* I'm aiming for 112% on this specific save, not on others
* I've already upgraded the 3 fragile charms
* I probably won't use either charm otherwise, the only content I've got left apart from Godmaster is Coliseum 3, Path of Pain and White Defender 2-5 (I guess). (Yes, I left Zote to die because I forgot about him...)
* I don't want to fiddle with save files. Anyway I'll do a second playthrough for achievements/content I won't get in this first playthrough, so I won't "miss" on one ending.
* I don't care about "but this is cheesy / too easy" (if the charm indeed makes Pantheon a little less hard). HK is my first metroidvania, and the first platformer I play in 25 years, so I think I've paid my dues already in terms of challenge, difficulty and trying hard. :P I just want a chance to achieve 112% , and my skill is limited enough as it is due to arthritis in my fingers :( #TeamOldFarts

In other words, considering the above, should I go with banishment or not?

Thanks in advance !

[kanna]

Naophae님이 먼저 게시:

Ohhh thank you for the tool! Now I know for sure I'm only missing a few Maskflies and God Tamer.
(But it'd still be sweet to have EVERYTHING/ONE in the journal XD )

I suppose so. Maybe I'm a bit soft, but I didn't even like killing certain harmless/mostly harmless enemies Maskflies and Alubas for the entries that do count to be completed (but I did do it), and on my original save, at least one of the items that don't count toward completion is still available but isn't in my journal because I refuse to kill a certain NPC, Menderbug (this one is about 60% because I would feel bad and 40% because of not wanting to deal with waiting for an RnG-based spawn, lol). Someday I might still do it, but I doubt it.

Maaax님이 먼저 게시:

Melody is a bit more useful than the little grimm dude, but you definitely dont wanna miss the epic dreamgrimm boss fight. I suggest going for grimmchild.

Yes, thank you! Technically they're both dream fights (and technically the Dirtmouth version is a bit harder), but the way you're introduced to the fight by going for the Ritual ending is so much more entertaining (and satisfying once you get it, imo). It would kind of fall flat seeing the intro next time when you already know what the fight will be like.

[Naophae]

Yeah, that's my conundrum. NKG fight would be great to have before... but I won't attempt Pantheon on a second game I think (one is enough at my silly level) so if CM is even just a little bit more useful, it might be better to have it for my Pantheon save...

... On the other hand, since I might soon need a break from all the end-game tryhard stuff, and was planning on streaming a second game soon, maybe I'll get to try NKG in that second game before I see him in Pantheon? Hmm now that's an idea.

[kanna]

Or you could save the pantheons for after your second playthrough, but still do them in your first save file. Most people aren't that good at the game yet in one playthrough, after all, so it would very likely help.

You can also build up your overall skill at the game by completing the speedrunning and Steel Soul achievements (perhaps separately) first. Not only would this be less grindy (if that matters to you) than camping out in Godhome, but you'll still have your first save file to switch back to and practice bosses on in Hall of Gods if you need it.

You can use the speedrunning save file for alternate choice achievements with Zote, Nailsmith, etc., as well; just plan for Zote in advance (and this really matters only if you didn't do Neglect yet, because you can't get the Vengefly King geo and need stagway/lantern money from elsewhere) and the rest can be done after the initial 5 hour achievement requirement is met.) If for some reason you didn't get 100% in 20 hours on that save file, you can very, very easily get it on a Steel Soul run.

Once you're done those achievements, you'll be better at bosses, your movement will be more precises and everything will be much easier. It would go a LONG way farther than either charm would take you. There's a reason you don't find any experienced players recommending Carefree Melody for pantheons, and only some recommendations for Hall of Gods Radiant fights. It's not because it's "cheesy." It's because it's unreliable. Also, if you haven't done it already, doing the hidden platforming challenge in the White Palace, AKA Path of Pain is great as well the individual bindings for each pantheon (not for practice but for the benefits that start at 8 bindings done) once you do settle in at Godhome.

Not saying you have to do any of this of course, but if you're not sure you're ready for pantheons, and you know you want to get these other achievements, then it would probably be more efficient to save finishing all pantheons for the end when your level of skill at the game will have grown a lot.

[Naophae]

Aye, I was considering this. At this point, I still need to do Colosseum 3 and Drama Queen Extraordinaire, anyway, and probably before the Pantheons. I know I've gotten better already compared to my first sessions, but more training and skill won't be a waste for any of this. XD

Speedrun... maybe. Steel sould, not ready for this yet. It'd be sweet if I managed to complete it, though, because -that- would mean skill, I guess!

[kanna]

Like many, many others, I made the mistake of trying to do Steel Soul as soon as I got my first ending (or 3). Those initial 2-3 attempts ended quickly! xD

After finishing the speedrunning achievements on a normal file (with the help of fireb0rn's guide on Steam and emray's Youtube video guide for routing and boss strategy help), I found Steel Soul wasn't hard at all. There's nothing wrong with it if you do, but in my case I never needed to quit out to save my life, even once.

[Naophae]

Yeah, I think I could manage Steel soul up to Hornet or even the Mantises right now, but not further. Speedrun sounds more feasible, and if it teaches me to manage my wall jumps and downward slashes 100% of the time, that will help tremendously.

[kanna]

I forgot to say, good idea about Colo 3. It's pretty challenging and might be good to complete first as well. For some people it's harder than the entire White Palace. (White Palace's secret area is good for high-precision practice with few to no enemies; Colo is not *as* precise but you have to know how to deal with the enemies in each wave.)

[Naophae]

I manage Colo3 up to the volt twisters, so yep, defo need more training. It doesn't help that I stream this game either, focus-wise, so I may have to do some things offline if I really can't progress them otherwise. But then, in stream or offline, reamining focused for long has always been my problem. ^^;

At least I'm starting to know the HK fight by heart now XD

[kanna]

Wow, streaming must add some pressure for progression, even when people understand a new player isn't going to get everything (or even most things) right away.

It's not a bad thing to be good at defeating HK, actually. You'll have an easier time doing the speed and Steel Soul achievements for sure.

[Naophae]

Viewers are usually pretty nice about it, I think the game is pretty hard for everyone, and even those who can now fight bosses without getting hit do remember it was hard to get there XD It's more about keeping part of my focus on the chat, greeting people, answering them, etc.

I don't always defeat HK yet, to be honest. I've been trying to place different kinds of hits (I saw really interesting stuff in speed runs) so of course I fail. But it's really interesting to try.

[kanna]

That's good. And if you're not having fun with something, I'm sure viewers can suggest something else you might enjoy more for the time being.

THK is actually a little easier in speedruns on the older patch 1.2.2.1. If I recall correctly, not only are there no double damage attacks but the movement is a little slower so you have more time to be able to jump up and over during a parry-and-counter.

Also, I'm not sure why I always see them hit THK during a stagger. I thought THK didn't take any damage during staggers, but maybe it's like Grimm's bat form where the damage is drastically reduced. I thought it was just possible to do damage on the earlier patch during a stagger only but I've now seen runners do it on 1.4.3.2 as well.

You have to be very quick to do the fight that way (or I guess just damage tanking and healing on the stagger works regardless of which ending you're going for).

[Naophae]

Honestly I'm not sure when THK does and don't take damage. My current strat is more along the lines of downing them with spells & nail, then recharging SOUL while they stab themselves, with the purpose of being full SOUL when Hornet jumps in. The next step is why I want to be full SOUL, and place 2 or 3 Abyss shrieks from the onset. After that... well, more tryhard is still needed ^_^; Not sure if that will work for P5 though (and still debating with myself as to how to complete Grimm's questline, while working on improving my skills).

Colo 3 is making me cough blood continuously, but at least I don't die anymore just on the Aspids. (The latter is my new swear word.)

[kanna]

Good plan, TR's biggest weakness is definitely (Shaman Stone-boosted) Abyss Shriek. In case you didn't know, after Hornet shows up you can always hit THK up to 4 times for soul and still be able to Dream Nail. So that's a guarantee of at least one spell cast, going in.

In P5 your plan is also a good idea and you do get an automatic heal at the start of the very last battle, but you'll want to watch your health more than you would in the Black Egg Temple if you want to be able to take full advantage of a certain benefit of the earlier pantheons, from doing them with bindings. Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out a good strategy.

"Aspid" usually follows a swear word for me if they get me at a bad moment. :')

Recently I've been trying different randomizer mods, and of course I had to try enemy rando. I don't know why, but for some reason when Primal Aspids replace another enemy, they don't idle anymore; they *instantly* hunt you down no matter how far away you are. Thanks to this, the most dangerous room in the entire game was probably the Crossroads room that leads to the grubs. I didn't think it was possible for so many to swarm together, and so *quickly* too! (Another contender: the Lighthouse climb where instead of slowpoke siblings I had infinitely spawning stinger/drill bees.)

[Naophae]

Someone asked me if I was planning to try a randomiser mod. I'm not if that would help in building up skill, or if I'm better just ... playing the regular game?

(Also for the first time today I managed to reach the wave with Lesser Mawleks in Colo 3 and now I'm all "wait what is this is it budding skill where's the real Nao and what have you done with them?" XD )

[kanna]

xD

It'll be really good for you to finish Colo now actually. There's a small Easter egg in P5 if you've met a certain condition before finishing the last Trial. (I think most people on a first playthrough will meet that condition.)

Randomizer difficulty depends on the settings you choose to an extent, but they're, well, random so I'd say it's probably more of a just-for-fun thing.

If you want to try it though, I recently discovered the "random start items" option will start you off with a couple of random movement abilities so you're not completely stuck.

Just don't combine "random start items" with "random start location" though, lol. I did that and it started me in the map room of Fog Canyon, surrounded in explode-y jellyfish while wearing Defender's Crest...

If you do mods, back up your save files first and avoid opening the ones you're not using for mod-related activity while you have mods active and while you're on an earlier version of the game from the one they were last saved on (since you have to go back to release 1.4.3.2 to run mods right now).