Why did the Pure Vessel fail?

[Adre]

discuss

[jyakimow]

The Pale King treated them like a child, and they came to see themselves that way. They were raised to be a champion, sacrificing themselves for their father's vision of a perfect kingdom, and so they came to see themselves as a hero. This idea instilled rendered them not truly hollow.

[Jdr_]

A pure vessel is suposed to be hollow, no mind, no mouth, no will. Only a receptable of void and soul to contain the infection. The pale king had affection for his "perfect" creation after so many discarded vessels, so this supposedly created a mind on the Pure Vessel, which became the failed Hollow Knight.

There is a discussion here about Broken Vessel, I said maybe he was the first attempt of the king to contain Radiance. If you dream nail him, there is a "..." dialogue, so, he has a mind, allowing Radiance to control him. If you try to dream nail Hollow Knight or Pure Vessel you'll note a kind of shield, like the king knew he was not hollow at some moment and put this protection, so no one could realize he was not hollow.

[Appaguchee]

So my take on it is that the hollow knight found out his purpose, was raised by the pale king to acomplish the task of sealing away the infection's source (now that's a discussion, how it was found). Some people think that since the hollow knight was raised caused it to be tarnished, and I think it was this, but as the hollow knight realized it would fail it became more and more desperate to be hollow, to be mindless. The pure vessel originally had dream nail dialogue as follows: "Do not think," "Do not act," and "Do not." The tale of the hollow knight is a tragic and sad one. The hollow knight was so desperate to save everyone, so desperate to be what the kingdom needed. He was raised his entire life to do so. Yet he failed. It's sad. Depressing even.

[Wincent, The Hollow Knight]

Originally posted by Appaguchee:

So my take on it is that the hollow knight found out his purpose, was raised by the pale king to acomplish the task of sealing away the infection's source (now that's a discussion, how it was found). Some people think that since the hollow knight was raised caused it to be tarnished, and I think it was this, but as the hollow knight realized it would fail it became more and more desperate to be hollow, to be mindless. The pure vessel originally had dream nail dialogue as follows: "Do not think," "Do not act," and "Do not." The tale of the hollow knight is a tragic and sad one. The hollow knight was so desperate to save everyone, so desperate to be what the kingdom needed. He was raised his entire life to do so. Yet he failed. It's sad. Depressing even.

The whole game have a feeling of depression, so I am not surprised. xD

[Adre]

I've always found the Pure Vessel/Hollow Knight's Dreamnail shield thing kind of weird, like, what is it? At first I thought it could be like that Kingsmould, with the protected memories and whatnot, but that didn't make much sense, since thene the awoken Dreamnail should be able to access them, and upon inspection, the shield on the Knight and the Kingsmould don't look alike. anyway, I think it would've been cool if, by hitting it with the dreamnail enough times, you could break the shield and access the Knight's dreamnail dialouge, since the PV and HK both had some neat cut dialouge, but whatever.

also, I believe the cut dialouge was "Do not speak", not "Do not act"

[Appaguchee]

Originally posted by DeezCheez:

I've always found the Pure Vessel/Hollow Knight's Dreamnail shield thing kind of weird, like, what is it? At first I thought it could be like that Kingsmould, with the protected memories and whatnot, but that didn't make much sense, since thene the awoken Dreamnail should be able to access them, and upon inspection, the shield on the Knight and the Kingsmould don't look alike. anyway, I think it would've been cool if, by hitting it with the dreamnail enough times, you could break the shield and access the Knight's dreamnail dialouge, since the PV and HK both had some neat cut dialouge, but whatever.

also, I believe the cut dialouge was "Do not speak", not "Do not act"

Tomato Potato Tomato Potato.

[lentinant]

Well, we all know, that Hollow Knight failed because he was not exactly hollow. I believe, "breaking moment" happened on scene we are shown on the end of Path of Pain - Pale Kings gives HK an idea, what he will do. Idea, what is on stake. This is why, in the end, HK wants to protect Hallownest, wants to restrain Radiance. And as he is being able to want to protect, this ironically becomes the reason, why he is not able to do so. I believe this is why Path of Pain is called so (aside of what player goes through).

[Adre]

Originally posted by Jdr_:

There is a discussion here about Broken Vessel,

could you provide a link, I can't seem to find it

[Jdr_]

Seems the post was deleted

[Adre]

\/(' - ')\/ what can ya do?

[Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist]

Originally posted by DeezCheez:

I've always found the Pure Vessel/Hollow Knight's Dreamnail shield thing kind of weird, like, what is it? At first I thought it could be like that Kingsmould, with the protected memories and whatnot, but that didn't make much sense, since thene the awoken Dreamnail should be able to access them, and upon inspection, the shield on the Knight and the Kingsmould don't look alike. anyway, I think it would've been cool if, by hitting it with the dreamnail enough times, you could break the shield and access the Knight's dreamnail dialouge, since the PV and HK both had some neat cut dialouge, but whatever.

also, I believe the cut dialouge was "Do not speak", not "Do not act"

Maybe its that the Vessels have intelligence, but lack conscience.
Then, perhaps the dream dialogue for PV was put in the code with the intention of only being accessible through datamining. It has 'thoughts', but not the kind that the Dream Nail can read.

This also gives credence to the theory that Lost Kin was the first 'functional' Vessel, and still retained a conscious, whereas Vessels created therafter had their conscience hollowed out.
Note how, unlike every other Vessel, Lost Kin's body doesn't form a Shade when its shell is broken.

[Adre]

Originally posted by Null the Abyssal Alchemist:

Originally posted by DeezCheez:

I've always found the Pure Vessel/Hollow Knight's Dreamnail shield thing kind of weird, like, what is it? At first I thought it could be like that Kingsmould, with the protected memories and whatnot, but that didn't make much sense, since thene the awoken Dreamnail should be able to access them, and upon inspection, the shield on the Knight and the Kingsmould don't look alike. anyway, I think it would've been cool if, by hitting it with the dreamnail enough times, you could break the shield and access the Knight's dreamnail dialouge, since the PV and HK both had some neat cut dialouge, but whatever.

also, I believe the cut dialouge was "Do not speak", not "Do not act"

Maybe its that the Vessels have intelligence, but lack conscience.
Then, perhaps the dream dialogue for PV was put in the code with the intention of only being accessible through datamining. It has 'thoughts', but not the kind that the Dream Nail can read.

This also gives credence to the theory that Lost Kin was the first 'functional' Vessel, and still retained a conscious, whereas Vessels created therafter had their conscience hollowed out.
Note how, unlike every other Vessel, Lost Kin's body doesn't form a Shade when its shell is broken.

I don't quite get what you mean with the whole intellegence but no conciousness thing, especially since the Pure Vessel would have a conciousness, that's why it failed in the first place

also, I think the reason that the Broken Vessel/Lost Kin doesn't release a shade is because there is no shade, it already left, all that's left is a broken shell and a butt ton of infection.
what I find interesting is that the Hollow Knight/Pure Vessel doesn't release a shade when defeated, I mean, maybe with the Hollow Knight, with it having a plague and angry god inside it and stuff, but not the Pure Vessel, heck, we even see the Hollow Knight's shade in the Dream no more ending, so what's up with that?

[Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist]

Originally posted by DeezCheez:

Originally posted by Null the Abyssal Alchemist:

Maybe its that the Vessels have intelligence, but lack conscience.
Then, perhaps the dream dialogue for PV was put in the code with the intention of only being accessible through datamining. It has 'thoughts', but not the kind that the Dream Nail can read.

This also gives credence to the theory that Lost Kin was the first 'functional' Vessel, and still retained a conscious, whereas Vessels created therafter had their conscience hollowed out.
Note how, unlike every other Vessel, Lost Kin's body doesn't form a Shade when its shell is broken.

I don't quite get what you mean with the whole intellegence but no conciousness thing, especially since the Pure Vessel would have a conciousness, that's why it failed in the first place

also, I think the reason that the Broken Vessel/Lost Kin doesn't release a shade is because there is no shade, it already left, all that's left is a broken shell and a butt ton of infection.
what I find interesting is that the Hollow Knight/Pure Vessel doesn't release a shade when defeated, I mean, maybe with the Hollow Knight, with it having a plague and angry god inside it and stuff, but not the Pure Vessel, heck, we even see the Hollow Knight's shade in the Dream no more ending, so what's up with that?

They are like robots. That is the simplest way I can put it.

Also, the Lost Kin still has a torso. That would have become a Shade.

[Appaguchee]

Originally posted by Null the Abyssal Alchemist:

Originally posted by DeezCheez:

I don't quite get what you mean with the whole intellegence but no conciousness thing, especially since the Pure Vessel would have a conciousness, that's why it failed in the first place

also, I think the reason that the Broken Vessel/Lost Kin doesn't release a shade is because there is no shade, it already left, all that's left is a broken shell and a butt ton of infection.
what I find interesting is that the Hollow Knight/Pure Vessel doesn't release a shade when defeated, I mean, maybe with the Hollow Knight, with it having a plague and angry god inside it and stuff, but not the Pure Vessel, heck, we even see the Hollow Knight's shade in the Dream no more ending, so what's up with that?

They are like robots. That is the simplest way I can put it.

Also, the Lost Kin still has a torso. That would have become a Shade.

I think the infection that the lost kin failed to contain either evaporated the shade or fused it into the body.
In any case the lost kin is one of the most cryptic characters, rivaling that of the pale king or Unn. We have pretty much no information besides it was the first functional vessel, it's the only asymmetrical vessel (that we know of), and it doesn't have a shade.

[Adre]

Originally posted by Appaguchee:

Originally posted by Null the Abyssal Alchemist:

They are like robots. That is the simplest way I can put it.

Also, the Lost Kin still has a torso. That would have become a Shade.

I think the infection that the lost kin failed to contain either evaporated the shade or fused it into the body.
In any case the lost kin is one of the most cryptic characters, rivaling that of the pale king or Unn. We have pretty much no information besides it was the first functional vessel, it's the only asymmetrical vessel (that we know of), and it doesn't have a shade.

we don't know that the Lost Kin died trying to contain the infection, it could well have been just another vessel that died after somehow getting out of the abyss (that's a whole other discusion), like the one Hornet killed, or the ones in the Nosk's lair, or, you know, the playable character. Although I agree it was probably some kind of early vessel, with it being assymetrical and stuff

also, as I said, the shade could have just left aafter the shell broke, probably returning to the abyss