What happened to the Pale King?

[Anezka890]

So far as we know, what happened to the Pale King as well as the White Palace is still shrouded in mystery but there are some interesting things I notice that may lead to some interpretations.

Firstly, we know that sometime after the infection the palace and the king suddenly disappeared without a trace. The only thing that can be found in the Ancient Basin is the door to the palace along with a dead guard (Kingsmould).
It seems to me that the king made every effort to live a secluded life, only allowing the most loyal bugs to get permission to enter the palace. I bet that only a handful of bugs could even enter the king’s chambers for example. The kingsmoulds, I suspect, could be like the elite bodyguards of the king having access to the inner most parts of the palace. Maybe that’s why we can get access to all the palace through one of the kingsmould’s mind. It’s interesting to note that his mind is heavily guarded and only if you obtained the awakened dream nail can you enter the palace. Also, you can also find kingsmoulds in the inner most parts of the palace.

Secondly, why did the devs chose a Kingsmould and not a Royal Retainer to enter the palace? Was this arbitrary? Here is the description of the individuals encountered in the White Palace:

Royal Retainer: The most loyal devout servants of the king.

Wingmould: A fly-like construct formed of white shell and a dark liquid interior.

Kingsmould: Guard construct of Hollownest’s palace and skilled wielder of the curved claw-blade. Its heavy white armor protects a fragile body.
Hunter also says: They say the old King died long ago, but his influence echoes around us still. A creature like that… What did he desire?

What is the nature of this constructs? Did you notice when killing a kingsmould that the body inside is black and will dissipate much like the hollow knight or his siblings? Why are there dead kingsmoulds in the throne chamber near the corpse of the king? Was there a battle there between them and the king? And why are the kingsmoulds attacking the hollow knight on sight whereas the royal retainers even bows to the hollow knight (the vessels are supposed to be protected and revered since they are the plague’s salvation)?

My theory? The king used the power of the void to create powerful bodyguards to protect himself and since they are made of the void they would more likely resist the plague. In the long run, abusing the power of the void made it go berserk and caused the kingsmoulds to attack. There is also the question that intrigues me: A creature like that… What did he desire?
It is also interesting to note that in an hidden room inside the White Palace there is a mould being from, much likely, The Collector and lots of armor suits resembling Wingmoulds and Kingsmoulds.

Thirdly, it’s interesting to note that when the hollow knight kills the dreamers in the dream world, in the “real” world they simply vanish… much like the palace and the king? What if the king sealed himself, the palace and his loyal subjects in a dream in order to protect himself from the plague and to find a solution to it but was killed which led to the disappearance of him and all the palace from the “real world”?

So yes, I believe that the Pale King died but I know there are still a lot of questions unanswered... Anyways, these are just some of my thoughts guys, I don’t know how much accurate they are but it always interested me in knowing what happened to the king. If you you work out something please share with me. Thanks!

[TheBrightKing]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

So I know I'm a little late to the party but I thought I would add my two cents if that's ok.

I recently finished the game and got the True Ending. Absolutely awesome. It was just amazing and I'm so happy that I stuck with this game.

So the thing I find interesting about the Pale King are his Knights. No, not the Hollow Knight, but the King's chosen Five. I can't remember all of their names right off the top of my head but I remember reading that they were the King's most loyal and skilled followers. Remember when we defeated the Dung Defender? Talking to him afterwards reveals to us that the King grew desperate to seal away the Radiance and his actions grew worse and less appealing. So if the Pale King disappeared one day with his most loyal followers, why didn't he take his Five Knights with him and his mate the White Lady? You would think that they would be the most logical to bring with you but he didn't. He left them all behind.

So what if the Knights didn't agree with him? What if they thought that his actions were so heinous and just downright awful that they could no longer follow him? The White Lady is a little understandable because she actually tells our character that if she ever left the area that she was in then she would have the irresitable urge to constantly breed. So she keeps herself sealed in the Queen's Gardens.

Now, when I arrived to the Throne Room in the White Palace, I was actually happy to see that the Pale King was dead. The Abyss isn't evil and when I heard about all of the awful experiments that the King was doing I was happy to see that he was no more.

But, is he really gone?

It took me a while to put these two puzzle pieces together but, if the Wyrm can reincarnate into the Pale King, who's to say that the Pale King cannot reincarnate into something else?

From what I can recall, and I hope my memory isn't lying to me, but the Wyrm was never actually killed. It CHOSE to die so that it could reincarnate. What if, when we see the Pale King dead on his thrown, he wasn't actually killed? What if he CHOSE to die so that he could reincarnate again? The Vessel was failing, the Radiance would return, and then what? How could he still rule when everything he tried to do was failing?

The thing I find Ironic enough though was the fact that the King never needed to seal the Radiance inside a vessel in the first place. All the King had to do was destroy the Radiance but for all his talk of supposed "power" even HE couldn't do that. No. One lone Vessel (our character) did it with the help of all it's siblings that were labeled failures and the Hollow Knight. If you ask me, that's pretty incompetent.

Sorry. I ranted a little but that's my two cents :)

I like that theory but im going to break it in pieces if you don't mind.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

I can't remember all of their names right off the top of my head but I remember reading that they were the King's most loyal and skilled followers.

Hegemol, Dryya, Ogrim, Ze'Mer and Isma. :p

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

So what if the Knights didn't agree with him? What if they thought that his actions were so heinous and just downright awful that they could no longer follow him? The White Lady is a little understandable because she actually tells our character that if she ever left the area that she was in then she would have the irresitable urge to constantly breed. So she keeps herself sealed in the Queen's Gardens.

Well, Hegemol was supposedly killed by a maggot that took his armor, Ze'mer locked herself in her house after losing her loved one, Dryya died defending the Queen, Isma sacrificed herself (to help ogrim? i think so tho it is not confirmed if it was just Ogrim the only one she wanted to help) and she is in stasis in her grove. The only one left is Ogrim that is still loyal to the king if you read his different dialogues and dream dialogues, if you didn't do it yet, defeat his dream version, it gives some interesting lore.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

Now, when I arrived to the Throne Room in the White Palace, I was actually happy to see that the Pale King was dead.

Remember that the white palace you enter is just the dream of the kingsmould, the real palace crumbled down. That could be the king dead, but it could be just what the knight thinks happened to the king. And if it is "dead" it could as well be more transformation as you say.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

It took me a while to put these two puzzle pieces together but, if the Wyrm can reincarnate into the Pale King, who's to say that the Pale King cannot reincarnate into something else?

yeah, that one there is on point, the king could have probably reincarnated, Bardoon has a quote that hints that: "This ashen place is grave of Wyrm. Once told, it came to die. But what is death for that ancient being? More transformation methinks."
So yeah the king could have reincarnated in something else, and that is a perfectly viable theory.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

What if he CHOSE to die so that he could reincarnate again? The Vessel was failing, the Radiance would return, and then what? How could he still rule when everything he tried to do was failing?

Yeah but if that is the case, would he still be in the kingdom? Thats the question, and did he die willingly? maybe he didn't die willingly but reincarnated anyways. I think the wyrm didn't want to die, but came here and died, and upon dying he chose to reincarnate.

But what do they mean by reincarnation? what if that wyrm, that reincarnation is the king's brand? what if the wyrm died and the former bug that was the pale king found the corpse like you do when you reach kingdom's edge and took the king's brand upon himself and gained that power, what if they called that "reincarnation"? so now you do the same and get the power of the king with the king's brand, so the king reincarnates in you, what if the king is not the bug but the brand? Those are some theory questions, did the wyrm really reincarnate? or just left its power to another bug that became the king just like you do and that was seen as reincarnation? There are lots of questions without answer yet.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

The thing I find Ironic enough though was the fact that the King never needed to seal the Radiance inside a vessel in the first place. All the King had to do was destroy the Radiance but for all his talk of supposed "power" even HE couldn't do that. No. One lone Vessel (our character) did it with the help of all it's siblings that were labeled failures and the Hollow Knight. If you ask me, that's pretty incompetent.

The King was powerful, but he wasn't as powerful as The Radiance, he couldn't defeat her so he decided to imprison her.

To quote bardoon (one of the wiser characters) again: "Ohhhmmmm... Tiny thing... It evolves beyond that Wyrm. Such union in a single being. A strength before unseen. Would it too challenge nature? It could perhaps defeat it."

He says that when you talk to him with the Void Heart, he explicitly says you evolve beyond that wyrm, he tells you that you have a power before unseen in this kingdom, and with that power you could even defeat nature (radiance is depicted as nature several times in the game) the king didn't have this power, he couldn't defeat her, so he was smart enough to trap and lock her in an egg so he could establish the order he seeked. But radiance had wnough power to leak the vessel and the egg and ruin the kingdom.

"Theirs is a different kind of unity. Rejection of the Wyrm's attempt at order." (Bardoon again)


He wasn't incompetent, he did everything he could to stop the radiance and defeat a being that was much more powerful than him, at least temporarily, that's a pretty large feat imo.

You are also right that the void isn't evil, in Hallownest everything are moral greys, the king attempted to establish order and the bugs liked and adored him, the radiance was locked out by an outsider so she seeked to escape her prison, her goal wasn't evil but her means could be considered as such, infecting and transforming the bugs into mindless husks.

The void is the most pure faction here, the void at least as far as we know didn't seek power nor control as the two types of light did, the void kept equilibrium (it is hinted also that the radiance and the void were at war for some reason before the Wyrm came). After the good ending of the game the void floods the egg, and it could have dominated the entire kingdom since the other two gods were dead or absent, but instead the void just returned to the abyss and left the kingdom alone.

So yeah this was a pretty large read but i think it is worth it if you are interested in the lore of the game, we can keep discussing the interesting story of Hallownest here, im just sharing my theories and what i know so you can build on it or share your own theories, the more we have the more we can get close to the truth, even tho right now there are lots of questions without answers.

[Dracubuh]

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Bright King:

Yeah but if that is the case, would he still be in the kingdom? Thats the question, and did he die willingly? maybe he didn't die willingly but reincarnated anyways. I think the wyrm didn't want to die, but came here and died, and upon dying he chose to reincarnate.

But what do they mean by reincarnation? what if that wyrm, that reincarnation is the king's brand? what if the wyrm died and the former bug that was the pale king found the corpse like you do when you reach kingdom's edge and took the king's brand upon himself and gained that power, what if they called that "reincarnation"? so now you do the same and get the power of the king with the king's brand, so the king reincarnates in you, what if the king is not the bug but the brand? Those are some theory questions, did the wyrm really reincarnate? or just left its power to another bug that became the king just like you do and that was seen as reincarnation? There are lots of questions without answer yet.

So I actually really like that theory because I'm sure we all remember the NPC Eternal Emlitia. She's hidden out in the City of Tears and she actually has something she says to our character when we talk to her again after we get the King's Brand.

"Oh... hmm... Could it be? You've returned at last? No. No... Oh pardon me! For just a moment, I mistook a certain quality about you. You seemed almost... regal. Silly, I know. It's clear you're not of high birth, wandering about all dirty and tattered like that."

The line where she says,"You've returned at last?" actually really supports your theory of it's not the bug but the brand. After all, one of the descriptions of the brand is "Marks the bearer as King." But that also raises another question. If the Pale King was, well, the King and he is supposedly dead, then how did the King's Brand return to the corpse of the Wyrm? How did WE, our character, find the Brand in the first place? Yes, Hornet tells us but, how did she KNOW where to find it? Afterall, we can't access the Abyss without it and the King was in and out of the Abyss often so he did have the Brand.

Thank you for your response. I actually really like theorizing and reading what others have to say :)

[TheBrightKing]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

The line where she says,"You've returned at last?" actually really supports your theory of it's not the bug but the brand. After all, one of the descriptions of the brand is "Marks the bearer as King." But that also raises another question. If the Pale King was, well, the King and he is supposedly dead, then how did the King's Brand return to the corpse of the Wyrm? How did WE, our character, find the Brand in the first place? Yes, Hornet tells us but, how did she KNOW where to find it? Afterall, we can't access the Abyss without it and the King was in and out of the Abyss often so he did have the Brand.

Thank you for your response. I actually really like theorizing and reading what others have to say :)

Yeah that's a good question, how did the brand return? maybe when the king dies the brand returns to its former position, but this one it a pretty difficult question to answer and i don't think we have enough in the game to answer it at least yet.

Hornet for some reason knows a lot about the kingdom and its history, she whas the one who encouraged you to try to defeat the radiance tho i don't know if she knew about the existence of the void heart.

As i said there are so many questions without answer, i hope the next free dlc sheds a bit of light into them.

[Dracubuh]

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Bright King:

Yeah that's a good question, how did the brand return? maybe when the king dies the brand returns to its former position, but this one it a pretty difficult question to answer and i don't think we have enough in the game to answer it at least yet.

Hornet for some reason knows a lot about the kingdom and its history, she whas the one who encouraged you to try to defeat the radiance tho i don't know if she knew about the existence of the void heart.

As i said there are so many questions without answer, i hope the next free dlc sheds a bit of light into them.

Oh and I know the conditions of the Five Knights. But, did all of those things happen to the Knights before or after the White Palace disappeared?

[Crowley42]

The confusing thing about Lore in this game is that while some things say that the Hollow Knight's appearance is a mere coincidence, many others point out that the Knight was intended to find the King's Brand (how else would the White Lady know about Hornet guarding it) and that it was intended to consume the King's Soul. But if so, then that just leaves more questions, how did they know about unifying the "Void and God" why did't they guide you from the beggining etc.

[Dracubuh]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

The confusing thing about Lore in this game is that while some things say that the Hollow Knight's appearance is a mere coincidence, many others point out that the Knight was intended to find the King's Brand (how else would the White Lady know about Hornet guarding it) and that it was intended to consume the King's Soul. But if so, then that just leaves more questions, how did they know about unifying the "Void and God" why did't they guide you from the beggining etc.

From what I understand from the game, "God" is actually referring to the Pale King. The bugs of the kingdom actually worshipped him as both their king AND deity and since we know that the Pale King is the reincarnation of the Wyrm which is the creature that created Hallownest and gave the bugs who lived in the kingdom minds of their own, it makes sense. That's why when you find a glowing tablet in the Howling Cliffs that states that if someone wishes to leave the kingdom then they have to "relinquish the precious mind the kingdom grants". Pretty much they revert back to basic instincts alone. OR, they lose all memory of the Kingdom. Example of a bug who lost their memories from leaving the kingdom: Quirrel AND the Little Ghost a.k.a, your character.

[TheBrightKing]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hex:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

The confusing thing about Lore in this game is that while some things say that the Hollow Knight's appearance is a mere coincidence, many others point out that the Knight was intended to find the King's Brand (how else would the White Lady know about Hornet guarding it) and that it was intended to consume the King's Soul. But if so, then that just leaves more questions, how did they know about unifying the "Void and God" why did't they guide you from the beggining etc.

From what I understand from the game, "God" is actually referring to the Pale King. The bugs of the kingdom actually worshipped him as both their king AND deity and since we know that the Pale King is the reincarnation of the Wyrm which is the creature that created Hallownest and gave the bugs who lived in the kingdom minds of their own, it makes sense. That's why when you find a glowing tablet in the Howling Cliffs that states that if someone wishes to leave the kingdom then they have to "relinquish the precious mind the kingdom grants". Pretty much they revert back to basic instincts alone. OR, they lose all memory of the Kingdom. Example of a bug who lost their memories from leaving the kingdom: Quirrel AND the Little Ghost a.k.a, your character.

god usually refers to the pale king and nature usually refers to the radiance.

[Crowley42]

Btw I think it is an interesting thing I wanted to point out that the Arcane Eggs you find throughout the game probably tell the future, not the stories of the past. Like the one in the Pale King's throne room.

[TheBrightKing]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

Btw I think it is an interesting thing I wanted to point out that the Arcane Eggs you find throughout the game probably tell the future, not the stories of the past. Like the one in the Pale King's throne room.

I don't know, lemm explicitly states that the arcane eggs are like the writing tablets the bugs used but from a long gone civilization before hallownest. They are difficult to crack so the info inside is pretty difficult to access. He doesn't want to damage them so he won't open any.

he also says that some bugs claim they can talk to their bearer and that they have some kind of sentience so they can choose their owner. Maybe the arcane eggs are the eggs that spawn the shadowy guys the vessels are made of? remember that all arcane eggs are found in the abyss (except for the one that seer gives you).

[Dracubuh]

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Bright King:

I don't know, lemm explicitly states that the arcane eggs are like the writing tablets the bugs used but from a long gone civilization before hallownest. They are difficult to crack so the info inside is pretty difficult to access. He doesn't want to damage them so he won't open any.

he also says that some bugs claim they can talk to their bearer and that they have some kind of sentience so they can choose their owner. Maybe the arcane eggs are the eggs that spawn the shadowy guys the vessels are made of? remember that all arcane eggs are found in the abyss (except for the one that seer gives you).

Aren't all the Arcane Eggs found in the Abyss because it is hinted at that the Abyss was actually the first civilization? Or at least has been around since the first civilization?

[Crowley42]

I would say all Arcane eggs are from there because the only one you found outside is given by the Seer.

My theory is solely based on the Egg in the King's room which talks about how "only one light can shine against the dark". This is obviously a prophecy, not a story from the past. So Lemm might just not know what the egs are talking about.

It is also interesting to note that the Arcane Egg was opened by the Pale King, so maybe his "future seeing" mentioned by the Seer and the fat worm (forgot his name) comes from reading the Arcane Eggs.

[TheBrightKing]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

I would say all Arcane eggs are from there because the only one you found outside is given by the Seer.

My theory is solely based on the Egg in the King's room which talks about how "only one light can shine against the dark". This is obviously a prophecy, not a story from the past. So Lemm might just not know what the egs are talking about.

It is also interesting to note that the Arcane Egg was opened by the Pale King, so maybe his "future seeing" mentioned by the Seer and the fat worm (forgot his name) comes from reading the Arcane Eggs.

Yeah that's a cool theory man, though bardoon hints that foresight is something wyrms have as power, not something that comes from the eggs, though he could be referring to the power to open the eggs and that leads to foresight? that's a bit convoluted tho, but yeah, you have a pretty cool theory there ;)

[Limonada Michel]

In the game, there are cut dream nail dialogue that would happen when you dream nailed Hollow Knight. In one of these, he says "Father?".
That made me think that, maybe, we, as the Knight, are the Pale King, reincarnated in a new body. Our character in the game is a really skilled warrior that was respected even by the queen, who said he could be more than a simple vessel, and when you pay attention, if literally no one in the kingdom could destroy Radiance, but you did it, that means that you are stronger than literally everyone on the kingdom and maybe in the world, like, Radiance is a god, as the game says, a "Higher Being".
Our character is more than a simple vessel, it can't be just a shell with black liquid inside of it.
The only another thing i could think to explain his power is because he can be the void entity, but that's another theory.

[Limonada Michel]

Oh, that's a discussion from 4 years ago. Maybe all of you are dead. Oops.