What happened to the Pale King?

[Anezka890]

So far as we know, what happened to the Pale King as well as the White Palace is still shrouded in mystery but there are some interesting things I notice that may lead to some interpretations.

Firstly, we know that sometime after the infection the palace and the king suddenly disappeared without a trace. The only thing that can be found in the Ancient Basin is the door to the palace along with a dead guard (Kingsmould).
It seems to me that the king made every effort to live a secluded life, only allowing the most loyal bugs to get permission to enter the palace. I bet that only a handful of bugs could even enter the king’s chambers for example. The kingsmoulds, I suspect, could be like the elite bodyguards of the king having access to the inner most parts of the palace. Maybe that’s why we can get access to all the palace through one of the kingsmould’s mind. It’s interesting to note that his mind is heavily guarded and only if you obtained the awakened dream nail can you enter the palace. Also, you can also find kingsmoulds in the inner most parts of the palace.

Secondly, why did the devs chose a Kingsmould and not a Royal Retainer to enter the palace? Was this arbitrary? Here is the description of the individuals encountered in the White Palace:

Royal Retainer: The most loyal devout servants of the king.

Wingmould: A fly-like construct formed of white shell and a dark liquid interior.

Kingsmould: Guard construct of Hollownest’s palace and skilled wielder of the curved claw-blade. Its heavy white armor protects a fragile body.
Hunter also says: They say the old King died long ago, but his influence echoes around us still. A creature like that… What did he desire?

What is the nature of this constructs? Did you notice when killing a kingsmould that the body inside is black and will dissipate much like the hollow knight or his siblings? Why are there dead kingsmoulds in the throne chamber near the corpse of the king? Was there a battle there between them and the king? And why are the kingsmoulds attacking the hollow knight on sight whereas the royal retainers even bows to the hollow knight (the vessels are supposed to be protected and revered since they are the plague’s salvation)?

My theory? The king used the power of the void to create powerful bodyguards to protect himself and since they are made of the void they would more likely resist the plague. In the long run, abusing the power of the void made it go berserk and caused the kingsmoulds to attack. There is also the question that intrigues me: A creature like that… What did he desire?
It is also interesting to note that in an hidden room inside the White Palace there is a mould being from, much likely, The Collector and lots of armor suits resembling Wingmoulds and Kingsmoulds.

Thirdly, it’s interesting to note that when the hollow knight kills the dreamers in the dream world, in the “real” world they simply vanish… much like the palace and the king? What if the king sealed himself, the palace and his loyal subjects in a dream in order to protect himself from the plague and to find a solution to it but was killed which led to the disappearance of him and all the palace from the “real world”?

So yes, I believe that the Pale King died but I know there are still a lot of questions unanswered... Anyways, these are just some of my thoughts guys, I don’t know how much accurate they are but it always interested me in knowing what happened to the king. If you you work out something please share with me. Thanks!

[Recjawjind]

The problem with the pale king dying is, he is a wyrm. Im pretty sure that even if the memory of the kingsmould are acurate and the "corpse" we found in the throne room was actually the pale king, that by any means doesnt mean he is dead. Bardoon states that "what is death for that ancient being? More transformation methinks." So i see it as likely that the pale king no longer exists in the form the bugs of hallownest used to know him for, but rather transformed into somthing else.

[Anezka890]

Yes that is definitely a possibility but it still bothers me to find so many kingsmould near the king... It almost suggests that there was a fight there. Maybe he survived and transformed but then what triggered the disappearence of the white palace from the real world? And his words when you use the dream nail: No cost to great..." I don't believe he would flee and leave the kingdom in that state.

[Recjawjind]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Αηεzka:

Yes that is definitely a possibility but it still bothers me to find so many kingsmould near the king... It almost suggests that there was a fight there. Maybe he survived and transformed but then what triggered the disappearence of the white palace from the real world? And his words when you use the dream nail: No cost to great..." I don't believe he would flee and leave the kingdom in that state.

Perhaps the "no cost too great" line refers to the kings goal to stay hallownests deity, since he kind of stole that position from the radiance. The main reson he wanted to contain and seal away the radiance was his wish to become, and stay the ruler and deity of this kingdom, no cost too great to keep that position. Perhaps he vanished, together with the white palace because he knew, the hollow knight was just a temporary solution, an imperfect vessle, which scared him, knowing that the radiance would eventually break free and be set on revenge.

[Carrier Pidgeons]

I don't think there's a single bit of evidence that proves what the Pale King was thinking one way or another (Wingmold hunter's journal entry literally says as much to boot).

I figured the Royal Retainers bowing was due to the King's Brand and the player being the new king because of it and their dream nail dialogue wanting them to show reverence to their king ( blind to the fact the Knight isn't the Pale King, similar to how their journal entry is more or less about them being merely extensions of their monarch.

The Kingsmolds we fight have the orange glint in their eye...is it possible that, like the Hollow Knight, they were imperfect and succumbed to the infection? It's not like the Radiance would care if they're hidden away in the dreamworld, because that's where she's more or less imprisoned.

[Anezka890]

First of all, thank you for your replies! That is a very interesting perspective Recjawjind the Sunbro \[T]/ After so many failed vessels he might have tried another way to defeat Radiance and it's true that he wanted to stay the ruler and deity of that kingdom. Another interesting comment that I didn't think about is the king's brand and how that can be linked to the reverence shown by the Royal Retainers. Now that you mentioned it Carrier Pidgeons, the image of the Kingsmoulds in the journal depicts oragen eyes... could they have tried to kill the king in the throne chambers while being manipulated by Radiance? Either way I just hope the devs give us more hints about this and how the White palace disappeared!

[Crowley42]

We can't have a real answer to this question, but it is clear that the Pale King transfered the White palace (or at least the version we see) into the dream world, and that the palace is fortified to protect the other half of the King Soul. (And to seal away the truth, that the Hollow Knight's imperfection was his faut). And this thing really doesn't make sense, the only thing this is good for is locking away the Abyss, but the Abyss is not a particularly evil force, as far as we know. So I can't figure out anything. Maybe the whole palace was a test of resolve for the knight as the White Lady says, but that makes no sense, wouldn't the banishment of the Radiance be the goal of the Pale King? Why would he put obstacles in the way of the knight? And did he do this after he knew Sealing away the Hollow Knight in the black egg will not provail? It is all very foggy and weird, so if someone can shed some light onto this, I would be glad to listen.

[TheBrightKing]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Αηεzka:

Yes that is definitely a possibility but it still bothers me to find so many kingsmould near the king... It almost suggests that there was a fight there.

Lemm explicitly states the white palace crumbled down without any signs of a fight. So the most viable theory right now would be that the king lost his power completely upon death or upon leaving his body or the kingdom itself, and that made all his constructions including the palace to crumble down

[Anezka890]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

We can't have a real answer to this question, but it is clear that the Pale King transfered the White palace (or at least the version we see) into the dream world, and that the palace is fortified to protect the other half of the King Soul.

I think that is a very strong possibility because the vessel failed, Radiance was able to spread the plague and influence the minds of creatures. Maybe he wanted to be in a place where the plague could not reach, or at least he thought so. A place where he could devise a new plan against Radiance. To me, it is also unlikely that the Pale King even knew of the awakening of the Hollow Knight (us) at the begining of the game (How did the Hollow Knight appeared in the howling Cliffs anyways?!). The Hollow Knight (us) was just another failed experiment as far as he was concerned.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από The Bright King:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Αηεzka:

Yes that is definitely a possibility but it still bothers me to find so many kingsmould near the king... It almost suggests that there was a fight there.

Lemm explicitly states the white palace crumbled down without any signs of a fight. So the most viable theory right now would be that the king lost his power completely upon death or upon leaving his body or the kingdom itself, and that made all his constructions including the palace to crumble down

But if that is the case than why didn't all the palace crumbled down? As far as I remember, only the throne room was damaged... The other areas of the palace were fine in the dream world. In the real world it completely vanished! No ruins left to tell the story, only the entrance of the palace was left which is weird to me.

I wish the devs would explain this in the new dlc to come... I think that there are many things left unexplained like how the realm of dreams works, how does it affect time and space? Are the realm of dreams heavely influenced by each individual memories? If so, is the White Palace we see not the real one but how the dead guard perceived it in his mind? Questions, questions, questions my friends. Need some answers here. Thank you for your replies! I hope we can find some closure to this.

[Anezka890]

Also, it would be interesting if the Pale King was actually one of the Dreamers... So that would mean that there were 4 dreamers in the beginning and not only 3 to seal Radiance. However, somehow, someone was able to end the King's dream leading to the disappearence of the White Palace (like how the Hollow Knight (us) does to the other dreamers).

[Crowley42]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Αηεzka:

Also, it would be interesting if the Pale King was actually one of the Dreamers... So that would mean that there were 4 dreamers in the beginning and not only 3 to seal Radiance. However, somehow, someone was able to end the King's dream leading to the disappearence of the White Palace (like how the Hollow Knight (us) does to the other dreamers).

That wouldn't make much sense, why would he be a dreamer and if so, why does he not have a mask and why does the Egg not have a 4th seal on it? I would say this is surely not the case.

[Crowley42]

Also, I was surprised to see the Pale King's "statue" in the Queen's gardens. It is very weird and it is also simmilar to how Vespa appears, I don't understand it.

[Anezka890]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Αηεzka:

Also, it would be interesting if the Pale King was actually one of the Dreamers... So that would mean that there were 4 dreamers in the beginning and not only 3 to seal Radiance. However, somehow, someone was able to end the King's dream leading to the disappearence of the White Palace (like how the Hollow Knight (us) does to the other dreamers).

That wouldn't make much sense, why would he be a dreamer and if so, why does he not have a mask and why does the Egg not have a 4th seal on it? I would say this is surely not the case.

I understand your question but did you see all the Hollow Knight's endings? In one in particularly you will see something interesting about the masks. Can't say anymore for spoiler's sake.
So it doesn't have 4 masks because by the time we begin our journey the Pale king's dream already ended. It is just a theory nonetheless.

[Crowley42]

You can use the chat commands to write Spoilers so please do tell me.

[Anezka890]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Crowley 42 (MTF ε-7):

You can use the chat commands to write Spoilers so please do tell me.

Thanks. Forgot about that.
Here is a link to all the endings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQobFhz4gY&t=75s
When you replace the other vessel with hornet inside the egg the masks desappear and a new one appears suggesting that Hornet ended up being the new dreamer. If that can happen than the mask of the Pale King could have desappeared too.

[Crowley42]

That is correct, but we know that the king was the one who got the dreamers to seal the egg, so he surely wasn't sleeping at that time.