Possibility of Extra Lore Dialogue Involving Delicate Flower?

[wataniyob]

Since it is very likely that the Grey Mourner is Ze'mer, one of the original five Knights of Hallownest, the Delicate Flower could potentially give extra lore if brought to NPCs directly linked to the Knights.

It'd be nice if someone were to test and see if bringing the Delicate Flower to the White Lady, Dung Defender, or Nailmaster Sheo results in some extra dialogue.

[Kein Zantezuken]

Originally posted by wataniyob:

Since it is very likely that the Grey Mourner is Ze'mer

I don't know, one line of dialogue quite weak evidence. We know that Knights were renowned for their strength, bravery and honor. Does Grey Mourner in any way looks like fierce Drya, mighty Hegemol or jolly knight Dung Defender? We also know that Isma, while being kind and good judge of character, was very strong (according to Dung's dream text).

The only thing we know about Ze'mer is that "he/she" is mysterious. I personally took it as a hint towards the fact that he might be assassin-type of Knight. But I suppose living inside a mirror counts as "mysterious" too...

As for the flower - no, only Elderbug has some dialogue about it.

[wataniyob]

Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:

I don't know, one line of dialogue quite weak evidence. We know that Knights were renowned for their strength, bravery and honor. Does Grey Mourner in any way looks like fierce Drya, mighty Hegemol or jolly knight Dung Defender? We also know that Isma, while being kind and good judge of character, was very strong (according to Dung's dream text).

The only thing we know about Ze'mer is that "he/she" is mysterious. I personally took it as a hint towards the fact that he might be assassin-type of Knight. But I suppose living inside a mirror counts as "mysterious" too...

The reason I'm leaning towards the Grey Mourner being Ze'mer is the fact there's a large broken nail sitting in her room and the following quote from a different thread in which the person is pretty sure on her identity:

Originally posted by Mr.Striker:

Ok, im going to clear it up, Ze'mer is indeed the grey mourner, it probably means "me" since le'mer means "you" or something like that. She was supposed to fall in love with the mantis traitor lords child and this is speculation but there may have been a fight between the knights and the traitor mantis who tried to inject the infection in themselves to oveecome the knights power.

Keep in mind too that a bunch of time has probably passed since the fall of Hallownest and the present, so there's no reason that Ze'mer would even be in the same state he/she was in as a Knight of the kingdom. If Ze'mer were in fact the Grey Mourner, the doomed love between her and the Traitor Lord's child could've driven her into despair and reduced her to the state she's in at the present.

Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:

As for the flower - no, only Elderbug has some dialogue about it.

Also, when you say only the Elderbug has some dialogue does that mean people have tried to bring it to other NPCs and gotten nothing, or just that the Elderbug is the only known NPC to give extra dialogue with the flower? I haven't heard of any attempts at bringing the Delicate Flower to the White Lady, which is the one NPC I'm really curious to know if you get extra dialogue from.

[Kein Zantezuken]

I can confirm Elderbug and Stagbro are the only one who react to flower (besides the grave ofc).

As for the quote you priovided, there is more fanfic and imagination to that, rather than attempt to deduct some lore. When I said "one line" I meant something a bit more solid:

"Le'mer, takes that heavy mantle...Che' wouldn't wish it upon one. Having served that brand at it's great height, che' knows well what suffering it brings. Enough to turn nym'King to flee or fair Knights to mourning."

It just a bit weird and, well, somewhat disappointing if she is indeed Ze'mer. And people think Dung Defender is a goofy character :P

[wataniyob]

Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:

I can confirm Elderbug and Stagbro are the only one who react to flower (besides the grave ofc).

As for the quote you priovided, there is more fanfic and imagination to that, rather than attempt to deduct some lore. When I said "one line" I meant something a bit more solid:

"Le'mer, takes that heavy mantle...Che' wouldn't wish it upon one. Having served that brand at it's great height, che' knows well what suffering it brings. Enough to turn nym'King to flee or fair Knights to mourning."

It just a bit weird and, well, somewhat disappointing if she is indeed Ze'mer. And people think Dung Defender is a goofy character :P

For me, it wasn't just the use of "le'mer" in her dialogue. The other piece of evidence is that there is a large broken nail in the mansion with her, with the cracked nature of the nail indicating that it's seen some use. Given the mansion is situated well away from any other living bug, the only reasonable user of the nail is probably the Grey Mourner herself. Hence why I think there's more to her than just a mourning, depressed figure and she could very well be one of the Knights.

[Kein Zantezuken]

Originally posted by wataniyob:

[...]mourning, depressed figure and she could very well be one of the Knights.

Life's is a b**ch I suppose, heh.
She does look really goofy, though.

[wataniyob]

In fact, if the line you brought up is actually spoken by the Grey Mourner, that would lend more evidence to her being one of the original Knights: she says she's served under that brand (referring to the King's brand) at its height (when Hallownest was at its peak) and knows what suffering it brings. She even says the suffering it brings would be enough to cause fair Knights to mourn. That seems pretty telling to me.

[Kein Zantezuken]

Yeah, that's her line, she is supposed to say it if you have King's Brand. It is more solid evidence, because nail could have belonged to the lover of hers, not necessarily be hers.

I guess this also explains why it seems like Dung made Ze'mer as a shapeless blob-thingie:
https://imgur.com/a/LgI72

It does looks like her silly form.

[TheBrightKing]

Its not just fanfic as he said, althought the last part was speculation its pretty clear the mourner is ze'mer. "Enough to turn nym'King to flee or fair knights to mourning"

She is referring to the dissappareance of the king ("Enough to turn nym'king to flee") at the start of the decadence in Hallownest. And shes talking about her change ("or fair knights to mourning") as she was ze'mer, a great knight and shes now a mourner.

The great nail is not from her lover, not likely, first; her lover is a mantis and mantis dont usually use other weapons than his claws, and if they do the weapobs are light ones, not heavy as that sword; also theres no reason for that sword to be in mourners house if it was not her sword.

You can try the is not confirmed line but that can be used with litterally everything in the game.

Its clear from evidence, indirects and visual information we have. Theres no other possibility and this matches very well.

[wataniyob]

Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:

Yeah, that's her line, she is supposed to say it if you have King's Brand. It is more solid evidence, because nail could have belonged to the lover of hers, not necessarily be hers.

I guess this also explains why it seems like Dung made Ze'mer as a shapeless blob-thingie:
https://imgur.com/a/LgI72

It does looks like her silly form.

Can you please give where you're supposed to find that room you've screenshot with Dung Defender? I've been scouring Dung Defender's boss room and the area around it and haven't found a single secret leading to that room.

Edit: Nevermind, I found it. If anyone's curious, there's a floor you can break with Desolate Dive right below the big switch after Dung Defender that pumps acid out of the Royal Waterways.

[buggy]

Another interesting bit:
"Amounst its hateful kin that did deny our union, that did reject che's...outside-ness" could be referring to the fact that she's a knight. I know there's a bit of Hunter's lore saying that the bugs of Hallownest and mantises were rivals, so her being rejected for working under the king's not much of a stretch.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by wataniyob:

Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:

Yeah, that's her line, she is supposed to say it if you have King's Brand. It is more solid evidence, because nail could have belonged to the lover of hers, not necessarily be hers.

I guess this also explains why it seems like Dung made Ze'mer as a shapeless blob-thingie:
https://imgur.com/a/LgI72

It does looks like her silly form.

Can you please give where you're supposed to find that room you've screenshot with Dung Defender? I've been scouring Dung Defender's boss room and the area around it and haven't found a single secret leading to that room.

Edit: Nevermind, I found it. If anyone's curious, there's a floor you can break with Desolate Dive right below the big switch after Dung Defender that pumps acid out of the Royal Waterways.

The blob thing is most likely isma, ze'mer is the broken one at the right of hegemol (the guy who owned false knights armor) and shares a lot of similarities with grey mourner