Hollow Knight

Hollow Knight

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Defake May 23, 2017 @ 2:58am
Dreamers judgement. Why? (SPOILERS)
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If you haven't found any sleepeng dreamer and haven't "contacted" with them, then LEAVE THIS THREAD, 'cos spoilers ahead! I will not use spoilers tag.
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I have just found first dreamer and killed him. Why does the hero need to kill the dreamers? And why they casted the hero away to the place "between body and soul"?

I'm not English-talking people and I can't fully understand some moments of their dialogue with that huge amount of pronouns and other unclear things. Can you please clarify their dialogue with more simple words then used in game?

From the Hallownest Dialogue Compendium:

Greenpath coversation, after defeating Hornet:
Would it seek to break the seals?
They cannot be undone.
They must be undone.
Let us sleep little shadow.
Return to your darkness.
Allow us our peace.


Resting Grounds encounter:
To protect the vessel the dreamers lay sleeping...

Go no further, little shadow.
What compels its climb out of the darkness? What compels its return to this sacred kingdom?
A call from beyond the Seals? By the Vessel, or by that captive light?
Would the Seals break? They cannot be undone.
But the Vessel weakens. That plague springs anew. They must be undone.
Yet still our Seals remain. Our duty holds.
It must be cast away.
Our duty holds. It shall be done.

Fade away, little shadow.
Fade away, and let us sleep in peace.



At first, what the hell is the Vessel? =D I spend more than 20 hours and have no idea what it is. I thought that this is some kind of bug's head. The other meaning is that container of soul that allows the hero focusing and casting spells. But what THE Vessel they mean?

At second, what means the "They cannot be undone. They must be undone."? That the seals should be broken but no one can do that? But as I guessed the dreamers don't want this to be. What does it mean?

"By the Vessel, or by that captive light?" - what "that" captive light? Is the Vessel antagonist or no?

"Our duty holds" - What is their duty? (What they need to do due to their duty?)

"It must be cast away" - their duty must be recall or the shadow (hero) must be deported? As I understand, the hero.


The dialogue with a fairy:

What a terrible fate they've visited upon you.
To cast you away into this space between body and soul.
Will you accept their judgement and fade slowly away?
Or will you take the weapon before you, and cut your way out of this sad, forgotten dream?


So, the hero was killed by the dreamers. Why? I don't understand the whole situation, please clarify me it. Thanks!

P.S.
In the Dialogue Compendium I've read a spoiler about that fairy is Seer or a dead member of their tribe. How can it be that Seer was just walking in the dreams between body and soul and suddenly meet the hero? (Btw, I collected 1000 essence. If it's a spoiler, don't tell me please =D Thanks)
Last edited by Defake; May 23, 2017 @ 3:10am
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Kein Zantezuken May 23, 2017 @ 3:09am 
Someone else will clear up the confusion about the rest but I wanted to comment on this:
How can it be that Seer was just walking in the dreams between body and soul and suddenly meet the hero? (Btw, I collected 1000 essence. If it's a spoiler, don't tell me please =D Thanks)

The current popular (and probably accepted) hypothesis is that Moth Tribe were very skilled Dreamwalkers. Seer spills some history, saying that moth tribe used to worship Radiance's light [and they harvested essence as byproduct of spoken light]. She also implies the members of their tribe wielded Dream Nail(s) before. All of this points out that dreamwalking and essence usage/manipulation is something they had extensive knowledge on (like Soul Society or The King on SOUL).

Seer is probably the last (?) member of Moth Tribe who was capable navigating dreamplane. I assume she could sense any disturbance and managed to find MC through her projection into the spoken plane. Keep in mind things are not always the same in Dream World (see, for example, Soul master -> Soul Tyrant or White Palace).
Last edited by Kein Zantezuken; May 23, 2017 @ 3:11am
Defake May 23, 2017 @ 3:26am 
Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:
The current popular (and probably accepted) hypothesis...

Mm interesting, thanks!

But I don't know what the spoken light and Soul Society is (And haven't seen Soul Tyrant). It seems huge amount of the story is waiting me further


Kein Zantezuken May 23, 2017 @ 3:36am 
oops
Szaal May 23, 2017 @ 11:52am 
Originally posted by Defake:
But I don't know what the spoken light
I believe, Kein meant "said light." It's a pronoun, referring to

Originally posted by Kein Zantezuken:
Radiance's light
Defake May 28, 2017 @ 3:12pm 
Anyone couldn't explain that dialogue? =(
4thQueen May 28, 2017 @ 6:57pm 
There are 3 Dreamers.

Would it seek to break the seals?
They cannot be undone.
They must be undone.
Let us sleep little shadow.
Return to your darkness.
Allow us our peace.

The 3 of them all talk at the same time.

The Vessel is the Hollow Knight.

The 3 Dreamers are protecting the Vessel because it holds the plague.

You have to destroy the Vessel.

Is this simple enough? You will find that the story is not told directly, so you will have more difficulty. What is your native language?
Defake May 30, 2017 @ 12:32am 
4thQueen, this is too simple =D

Thanks for explaining, but most of my questions are still without an answer =(

The 3 Dreamers are protecting the Vessel because it holds the plague.
You have to destroy the Vessel.
This is what I wanted to know.
i.e. The Dreamers are protecting the Vessel because they don't want the plague to spread throughout the kingdom.
But why the hero have to destroy it? I haven't completed the game yet, but hero had had a will to destroy the Vessel at the moment of this dialogue. And I don't understand why.

The Vessel is the Hollow Knight.
Haha interesting. I have passed White palace yesterday and Birthplace. Got Heart of Void. And I was told this phrase:
You are the Vessel. You are the Hollow Knight.
So, the hero is the Vessel and the Hollow Knight. But I was spoilered that Hollow Knight is the final boss. So, hero isn't the Hollow Knight. But if he is, then the hero needs to destroy himself and Dreamers protect him from this stupid act *brain exploded*


Well, anyway I really want to know meaning of this question:
At second, what means the "They cannot be undone. They must be undone."? That the seals should be broken but no one can do that? But as I guessed the dreamers don't want this to be. What does it mean?
Thats interesting at least)

By the way, the Dreamers first killed the hero, but then helped him to kill them X-)
For example, the Dreamer at Fog Canyon has sent NPC to help the hero to kill her.
This is too complicated =D And as ill luck would have it, page about Dreamers at Hollow Knight Wiki is empty now =/

What is your native language?
Russian
Last edited by Defake; May 30, 2017 @ 12:35am
Toyman May 30, 2017 @ 9:01am 
You have already got the void heart, so i can fully expain:

The pale king known as the wyrm tried to fight the infection using a mystery essense: Void.
If you go to the abyss you can see many skulls that look similar to you with different horns. they are his failed attempts to create the ultimate pure vessel, made of pure void to hold the radiance (the infection).

One of his attempts seemed successful, he is the current hollow knight (the vessel). you can see his figure in the City Of Tears: "In the black vault far above. Through its sacrifice Hollownest lasts eternal".
HOWEVER, it was later figured that he is impure, there is a place for the radiance to take control, for the infection to erupt, thats why the kingdom fell off, the infection slowly took control of the bugs by slowly leaking off the hollow knight.

Dialogue before you acquire the void heart, as told by the Pale King:
"No cost too great.

No mind to think.

No will to break.

No voice to cry suffering.

Born of God and Void.
YOU ARE THE HOLLOW KNIGHT."

you are the pure vessel, the ultimate form of void that the king worked hard for, sacrified for.
In order the contain the radiance, the infection forever with no way of it to erupt.

It is your duty to replace the false vessel with you, the pure vessel, and end the infection for good.

The dreamers neglect you at first, because they were given the duty to protect the vessel.
However they dont fight you and even call you as you progress (The Teacher is the greatest example), because you are the only hope and you must break their seal in order to replace the vessel.
Last edited by Toyman; May 30, 2017 @ 11:37am
Defake May 31, 2017 @ 6:50am 
Toyman, thank you very much for this complete explanation!

Could I know all this story (about the king and his experiments) from the game? Or this part of story was only told by developers?

It is your duty to replace the false vessel with you, the pure vessel
The main hero knew about his duty from his birth? Or it was kind of feeling that he needs to destroy the Vessel? Or the hero understood his duty during the game story?
Only the player doesn't know about hero's duty all the game or both?
Last edited by Defake; May 31, 2017 @ 6:50am
Toyman May 31, 2017 @ 12:08pm 
The hero only understands the meaning after he aquires the void heart.
it effects all of the possible endings, so I wont spoil it for you finish the game first.

after you finish the game I recommend you to go to the fandom hollow knight wiki and explore the characters and the lore.

The Pale king and the story of the kingdom is told through the game in pieces.
in various text stones in the game.
through the Hunters Journal for killing certain enemies.
Through chatting with various NPC.

Fully explore the ancient basin and the abyss, go through the White Palace.
Go to the very edge of kingdoms edge.

if you are intrested in the hero's lore some of it is told by Hornet.
I reccommend you to repeat Hornets dialog (read her wiki page) after finishing the game.
she is mentioning hereself as a void creation too, but always mentions that you are completly emotionless, completly dark.
Hornet is also a key character and some of her lore is still a mystery (I guess it will be revealed in the incoming DLC, because we are gooing to play as Hornet!)

The White Lady can also help you understand the hero and the pale king, also read all her possible dialog after you finish the game (though Hornet is more importent in my opinion).

"No cost too great - no cost too great for the king to save his kingdom.

No mind to think - you are mindless, emotionless.

No will to break - you have no will that can be broken by the radiance, you are empty.

No voice to cry suffering - you dont feel, you wont suffer from the radiance and you are literally voiceless.

Born of God and Void - you are his greatest success.
"
I belive that its the hero's "kind of feeling", he does it naturally because of the task he was made for and his lack of personality (he is pure Void, not a regular being). however it is affected after aquiring the void heart, that is the moment he understands what he was made for and what he really is (and so does you).
Last edited by Toyman; May 31, 2017 @ 12:20pm
Defake Jun 2, 2017 @ 8:51am 
It seems I should read all the texts about mobs in that inventory section. Never paid attention to this.

that is the moment he understands what he was made for and what he really is (and so does you).
Fortunately, the hero is more smarter than me. If I had a choice I would ruin the kingdom 100% because of my misunderstanding =D

Can't wait to compete the game already. But have not time at the moment.

Big thanks to you again, Toyman!
TheBrightKing Jun 4, 2017 @ 6:59am 
Originally posted by Defake:
It seems I should read all the texts about mobs in that inventory section. Never paid attention to this.

that is the moment he understands what he was made for and what he really is (and so does you).
Fortunately, the hero is more smarter than me. If I had a choice I would ruin the kingdom 100% because of my misunderstanding =D

Can't wait to compete the game already. But have not time at the moment.

Big thanks to you again, Toyman!


He is just driven by the circumstances, he has no mind to think.

The hero is you, you have 0 understanding of the world, and so does he.

Most dialogues that hint this are shown before and when collecting the void heart, specially from the white lady. Theres almost nothing aboit this in the hunters journal.

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Date Posted: May 23, 2017 @ 2:58am
Posts: 12