Finally finished 1st run and I don't ever feel like playing this game again.

[BLUU]

Just here to blow off some steam.
I really really really dislike the combat in this game. To me this game is harder than any souls game I've played. After finishing Dark Souls 1 or 2 I felt some good accomplishment. After this game I'm just glad it's over.

I wonted to like the game because everything else is top notch. But the combat oh boy, got me a large glass of rageahol and a couple lobster claws for hands. Gonna need some mental and physical therapy after this.

For reference. I've had this game in my library for years and I just picked it up again to complete it. Took me 31 hours @ 83%.

[purevessel]

Have you rebound your controls?

[JustALonelyDude]

yeah, the original controls are terrible, once i got me a WASD layout, loved it.
its also possible the combat is just not for you. that happens sometimes.

[Fenix]

I will never understand how someone can say that the combat in this game is harder than dark souls.
Maybe it’s because I play both with a controller?

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Fenix:

I will never understand how someone can say that the combat in this game is harder than dark souls.
Maybe it’s because I play both with a controller?

Tbh, i agree. Im currently playing ds3, and the bosses are pretty easy. Compared to hollow knight, id say its easier.

[Mars]

I finally started this game a few days ago. When I encountered the first boss I was like: oh no.. i f'n hate bosses.. but I did okayish. Then the second one.. ugh.. sorry, I can't be bothered with bossfights. I find them annoying, often tedious, and you're always like one bad move away from losing. I wanna play games to relax, not get my heart rate up and have sweaty palms and get frustrated, there's no "yay, I did it" reward in it for me, just relief that I can finally get on with the game. So I checked youtube and found an hour long video with like 20 chapters for every boss.. nope, I'm out, sorry. Not gonna force myself through that. Too bad, the rest of the game seems fun.

Sadly, this also happened to me on Animal Well, which I apparently almost "finished", but when I encountered the last boss I was just done. Too bad, because I would've loved to go hunting secrets and collecting stuff after that. I'm kind of at the same point with Tunic.. tho I've been getting by okayish as well so far, I'm dreading the point I'm at now :s

[MADE IN IRON]

The second playthrough is easier.

But anyway, maybe not your kind of combat. The "mandatory" content is not THAT hard. But among the optional content there are a lot of soul crashing challenges.
And I'm not a good player. On my first playthough I just reached the first (and easier) ending, And it took me a lot of attempts.
On my second playthough the one crashing with the "final boss" wasn't my soul, but my PC, for some reason.
On the third playthough I felt more comfortable and actually tried to go for another ending. I wasn't able to do it, but I hope I will be some day.
The point is, you get better everytime you try.
But I totally loved the game the first time I played it, if you didn't enjoyed it, 83% is a very fair number to say without prejudging that this is not your game. Very far you reached for something you weren't even ejoying, that's commitment.

[Phirestar]

Originally posted by BLUU:

To me this game is harder than any souls game I've played.

I would say that I agree with you on that. I played Hollow Knight toward the end of 2017 into early-2018, and I got into the Souls series immediately following this game. The difficulty was initially similar, with both games taking me around 90-100 hours to finish completely (not counting Godmaster, especially since it wasn’t released yet), but Dark Souls definitely felt way easier on a replay while Hollow Knight retained most of its mid- and late-game challenge.

I think the difference is the pacing of enemy aggression. In the Souls games, especially the older ones with slower, heavier movement, you can greatly abuse the weaknesses of enemy recovery animations and getting behind them in order to a force a turnaround before they’re able to launch another attack. While in Hollow Knight, because the game is 2D and has faster combat, it often feels like enemies never stop attacking or pursuing the player. (I can’t imagine how brutal Silksong is going to be because of this.)

That, and I’d also say that the window of opportunity for healing in Hollow Knight is much tighter compared to Souls, which means that repairing mistakes is harder. I constantly found myself getting hit right at the end of healing and losing the mask I just restored. That didn’t happen nearly as much with the Estus flask.

[76561199791176368]

idk what you're talking about the combat is insanely fun and finely tuned. maybe its your key binds or something?

[Hotel Security]

>I will never understand how someone can say that the combat in this game is harder than dark souls.

Me neither. Yeah, it took me hours to take down the likes of Pure Vessel and NKG but there's a lot more difficult fights and bosses in Dark Souls than there are in HK. And if we don't include the optional HK superbosses or pantheons, I don't think they come close in challenge.

I don't get why you'd ever compare a 2D-sidescroller to a 3D action game anyway. People use the "soulslike" label with HK since it borrowed elements but I don't this makes HK a souls clone or a super-hard game. It has more in common with Metroid and Castlevania with combat closer to those games.

>Im currently playing ds3, and the bosses are pretty easy.

I did feel DS3 was a little easier than the previous games, especially the first half of the game. I felt the challenge picks up a little in the second half with some nastier bosses. Plus the DLC is pretty hefty. Midir leaves quite the impression and took me a loooong time.

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Hotel Security:

>Im currently playing ds3, and the bosses are pretty easy.

I did feel DS3 was a little easier than the previous games, especially the first half of the game. I felt the challenge picks up a little in the second half with some nastier bosses. Plus the DLC is pretty hefty. Midir leaves quite the impression and took me a loooong time.

I havent played ds1 and the others, but i have played sekiro and ER, and i still find that to be true. Isshin hitless was easier than p3.
Altough, for ds3 i have yet to play the dlc. I might change my mind.

[gps]

I can sympathise. Tried it some weeks a go - after much anticipation from all the hype and positive reviews waiting for a sale. Made it to the first hornet fight, failed twenty or thirty times - and decided what the heck, not my game.
If the learning curve gets to steep it turns into a wall.
On contrast I actually also played Dead Cells some months ago. Which is also considered a hard game - but there I had no problems making progress and beating the final boss - on lowest level at least.
So what's the difference here? In this one you learn by failure. If you fail you have to do the same sh..t over and over again. And as long as you're not good enough you don't get to see any more of the game. The placement of the "learning" bosses compared to the next bench clearly indicates this is on purpose.
In Dead Cells - although you also die many times - in contrast you learn by success, trying different routes and levels, trying different equipement and builds, so you're actually building confidence and getting better by PLAYING the game. Much more satisfying experience for me at least...
But no hard feelings, not much money spent here. But sadly no interest in Silksong either...

[purevessel]

Originally posted by gps:

I can sympathise. Tried it some weeks a go - after much anticipation from all the hype and positive reviews waiting for a sale. Made it to the first hornet fight, failed twenty or thirty times - and decided what the heck, not my game.
If the learning curve gets to steep it turns into a wall.
On contrast I actually also played Dead Cells some months ago. Which is also considered a hard game - but there I had no problems making progress and beating the final boss - on lowest level at least.
So what's the difference here? In this one you learn by failure. If you fail you have to do the same sh..t over and over again. And as long as you're not good enough you don't get to see any more of the game. The placement of the "learning" bosses compared to the next bench clearly indicates this is on purpose.
In Dead Cells - although you also die many times - in contrast you learn by success, trying different routes and levels, trying different equipement and builds, so you're actually building confidence and getting better by PLAYING the game. Much more satisfying experience for me at least...
But no hard feelings, not much money spent here. But sadly no interest in Silksong either...

Past hornet it gets good. I quit the game too.
Also, you beat the "tutorial" for dead cells.

[Phirestar]

I think the difficulty of the two games is subjected to the skill set of the player whom is playing the game. I would say that Hollow Knight is a bit closer in combat pacing to a hack n’ slash than it is a Soulslike, with experienced players often diving in for a swipe at the boss between every maneuver (and always using Quickslash). While in the Soulsborne games it’s more about finding specific openings during specific boss attacks to go in for a retaliation, with focus also put on positioning in the correct spot and managing the level of aggression that you give when attacking.

If you’re the type that is good at reacting on your feet and playing offensively, or are a fan of fast-paced action games in general, then I’m sure Hollow Knight will become easier for you over time. But you’re more likely to struggle when it comes to Dark Souls or Elden Ring, as those game can and will punish the mindset of attacking after every single roll, especially in the newer games where enemy design became more sophisticated due to FromSoftware improving at their craft.

When I did my first proper playthrough of Dark Souls 3 back in 2022, I managed to beat the Twin Princes on my very first attempt at them. The penultimate boss of the base game, whom I’ve seen others die to 30, 40, maybe even 50 times over. Same with the final boss, the Soul of Cinder. I was prepared for a big challenge and put off finishing the game to a separate day, then got on and was done and rolling credits in literally 20 minutes - very anticlimactic. All of that should tell you which camp I’m in with this.

[Invader Xom]

Difference is in DS series there are many cheese builds that make games too easy. If You use them, HK seems harder.

[BLUU]

Some very good points here. I'd just like to add that I only compare HK to DS because of the way you learn enemy patterns. The combat is very different. And I guess what was said about player skill sets resonates. HK demands precision and I guess I lack the skill necessary to make it fun for me.