I feel little desire to defeat The Radiance

[ninjacarl (dk)]

After having defeated the Hollow Knight and gotten one of the endings, i feel very little motivation to defeat a boss that seems 10x harder than anything else in the game.

[Grumm]

Publicado originalmente por kanna:

I forgot myself above, but I should point out this thread was about Radiance and not AR. We should be keeping that part of the discussion in spoilers.

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Absolute radiance can literally layer attacks if you get unlucky enough to the point that you can literally not dodge certain combinations of attacks at certain times. That is the definition of bad game design. And like I said, just because 1 or 2 people who probably speedrun or make a living off of playing the game can "master" it does not make it reasonable. Point still stands.

I wasn't talking about just "1 or 2 people." XD

Maybe it seems that way when you lack experience with either this particular fight or with platforming/movement in this game in general, but this isn't true. You can definitely be either lucky or unlucky with the particular combination of attacks that come up, and sometimes they can even overlap slightly but even this can be managed if you're paying close attention, especially if you dodge horizontal attacks as early as possible rather than waiting until they're nearly done.

For example, what do you do when you've gotten very unlucky and there are vertical and horizontal attacks overlapping (i.e. the worst case scenario, imo)? In my case, I use Descending Dark (and if possible, carefully line up a Shadow Dash) and use the invincibility frames to reposition. Got caught out (probably from trying to attack for too long) and need to stall in the air to make it through a gap in the sword wall? Abyss Shriek. During the first 3 stages with one big platform at the bottom, if I happen to need to dash through the swords and over some spikes (usually I can avoid this by walking away a bit first but either way is fine), I can pogo the spikes. During the fourth stage (floating platforms), there are never any spikes on the ground so you can use d-dark all over the place and this is huge both for i-frames and damaging her by attacking while she's starting up either the light rays or the ring of swords.

Each of these challenges is an entertaining puzzle to solve, which is what keeps it entertaining for me.

But for either of these fights, if someone is having trouble and they haven't done the other challenges in the game yet, I would recommend doing those first.

Not reading all of that, regardless of what you said, it is still possible to get unlucky and be caught in a scenario where you have to take damage. Descending dark isn't always a "get out of jail free card" either if the unlucky situation happens with no platform below you. I'm not about to argue with people who don't want their minds changed, just maybe realize that it's okay for your fav game to have a single flaw or two.

[kanna]

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Not reading all of that, regardless of what you said, it is still possible to get unlucky and be caught in a scenario where you have to take damage. Descending dark isn't always a "get out of jail free card" either if the unlucky situation happens with no platform below you. I'm not about to argue with people who don't want their minds changed, just maybe realize that it's okay for your fav game to have a single flaw or two.

You boldly announce you're going to ignore the specific examples from the fight that I gave to support my position, then you ignore people other than me in this thread that have said this is a fair fight, all the while you still haven't said anything countering the fact that there are plenty of people who can consistently handle AR, and now you claim everyone else is refusing to be flexible on this?

Try to realize that by pulling out bitter and desperate ad hominems like "it's okay for your fav game to have a single flaw or two," you're losing whatever credibility you had left. Who said this game has no flaws (or that it was their favourite game for that matter)? Relax. You're not under attack, you don't need to get defensive and lash out.

If you can't problem solve this challenge on your own and need help, there's plenty available from more experienced players either here or on Youtube. If you want to quit, that's fine too.

[Noborus]

I was planning on leaving this thread alone but looks like someone got hit with reality

[Grumm]

Publicado originalmente por kanna:

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Not reading all of that, regardless of what you said, it is still possible to get unlucky and be caught in a scenario where you have to take damage. Descending dark isn't always a "get out of jail free card" either if the unlucky situation happens with no platform below you. I'm not about to argue with people who don't want their minds changed, just maybe realize that it's okay for your fav game to have a single flaw or two.

You boldly announce you're going to ignore the specific examples from the fight that I gave to support my position, then you ignore people other than me in this thread that have said this is a fair fight, all the while you still haven't said anything countering the fact that there are plenty of people who can consistently handle AR, and now you claim everyone else is refusing to be flexible on this?

Try to realize that by pulling out bitter and desperate ad hominems like "it's okay for your fav game to have a single flaw or two," you're losing whatever credibility you had left. Who said this game has no flaws (or that it was their favourite game for that matter)? Relax. You're not under attack, you don't need to get defensive and lash out.

If you can't problem solve this challenge on your own and need help, there's plenty available from more experienced players either here or on Youtube. If you want to quit, that's fine too.

Yea not gonna read that either bruh i'm not trying to write an essay for agruments that arent going to change either of our opionions. Absolute radiance is badly designed and thats that lmao.

[Yuzhi与纸]

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Publicado originalmente por kanna:

You boldly announce you're going to ignore the specific examples from the fight that I gave to support my position, then you ignore people other than me in this thread that have said this is a fair fight, all the while you still haven't said anything countering the fact that there are plenty of people who can consistently handle AR, and now you claim everyone else is refusing to be flexible on this?

Try to realize that by pulling out bitter and desperate ad hominems like "it's okay for your fav game to have a single flaw or two," you're losing whatever credibility you had left. Who said this game has no flaws (or that it was their favourite game for that matter)? Relax. You're not under attack, you don't need to get defensive and lash out.

If you can't problem solve this challenge on your own and need help, there's plenty available from more experienced players either here or on Youtube. If you want to quit, that's fine too.

Yea not gonna read that either bruh i'm not trying to write an essay for agruments that arent going to change either of our opionions. Absolute radiance is badly designed and thats that lmao.

If absrad is like bosses with little or no RNG(NKG, PV), the game will lose some fun. The final boss will also be far less challenging.
Since only wall of light requires you to activate invincibility, it is extremely rare to encounter situation that you cannot avoid at all.
I die a lot to RNG too, but for some situations if I just keep myself on the ground, I won't be killed by the sudden sword rain.
RNG is not totally fair while being a well-designed part of the game. I don't want to see absrad being playing around with players. I would like myself being killed by absrad, being killed by RNG.

[Arti_Sel]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

If you feel like you have gotten what you wanted out of the game then that's enough. You can always return later.

One thing to consider is that absrad is made for neckbeard tier gamers, it's probably a sign of health to quit before beating it, especially considering what you have to go through to even get a shot at it.

And it's ok for games to have challenges that are too hard for the average man to beat.

[Grumm]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

If you feel like you have gotten what you wanted out of the game then that's enough. You can always return later.

One thing to consider is that absrad is made for neckbeard tier gamers, it's probably a sign of health to quit before beating it, especially considering what you have to go through to even get a shot at it.

And it's ok for games to have challenges that are too hard for the average man to beat.

Yes but all of you seem to be missing the point that I can easily beat it it's just a matter of mastering it that's inconsistent. Hence the bad game design.

[Arti_Sel]

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

One thing to consider is that absrad is made for neckbeard tier gamers, it's probably a sign of health to quit before beating it, especially considering what you have to go through to even get a shot at it.

And it's ok for games to have challenges that are too hard for the average man to beat.

Yes but all of you seem to be missing the point that I can easily beat it it's just a matter of mastering it that's inconsistent. Hence the bad game design.

Of course you could beat it easily if you mastered it consistently. It's not bad design just because you are unable to do so. Other people have, and other people are able.

Like I said Absolute Radiance is neckbeard tier, it's good that people like that get some worthy game-content once in a while as well.

[Whiskra]

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

One thing to consider is that absrad is made for neckbeard tier gamers, it's probably a sign of health to quit before beating it, especially considering what you have to go through to even get a shot at it.

And it's ok for games to have challenges that are too hard for the average man to beat.

Yes but all of you seem to be missing the point that I can easily beat it it's just a matter of mastering it that's inconsistent. Hence the bad game design.

What makes mastering the fight inconsistent? Just like any fight you learn from mistakes and apply the new knowledge for the next attempt. The only thing that makes Absolute Radiance different from Nightmare King Grimm, going by your example of a well designed boss, is that NKG doesn't require you to think after you've learned his attacks. It's all muscle memory. If you get caught out by a pattern that seems unavoidable on Absolute Radiance, you pretty much always have yourself to blame. Attacks aren't so frequent that you can't take it easy and calmly analyze the current situation. If you feel like you are unable to do so, I guess you didn't master the fight yet.

[Grumm]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Yes but all of you seem to be missing the point that I can easily beat it it's just a matter of mastering it that's inconsistent. Hence the bad game design.

Of course you could beat it easily if you mastered it consistently. It's not bad design just because you are unable to do so. Other people have, and other people are able.

Like I said Absolute Radiance is neckbeard tier, it's good that people like that get some worthy game-content once in a while as well.

Those "people" have learned to abuse the game/ai to degrees that works in their favor to the point that it shouldn't even be considered fair. There is not skill involved with their "mastery" of it. Just because something can "technically" be consistently done does not automatically validate it as fair or good game design. Absolute Radiance is an outlier compared to almost every other boss in the game. I don't see how that alone doesn't trigger flags for you people. That same logic can literally be applied to any other game.

[Grumm]

Publicado originalmente por Whiskra:

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Yes but all of you seem to be missing the point that I can easily beat it it's just a matter of mastering it that's inconsistent. Hence the bad game design.

What makes mastering the fight inconsistent? Just like any fight you learn from mistakes and apply the new knowledge for the next attempt. The only thing that makes Absolute Radiance different from Nightmare King Grimm, going by your example of a well designed boss, is that NKG doesn't require you to think after you've learned his attacks. It's all muscle memory. If you get caught out by a pattern that seems unavoidable on Absolute Radiance, you pretty much always have yourself to blame. Attacks aren't so frequent that you can't take it easy and calmly analyze the current situation. If you feel like you are unable to do so, I guess you didn't master the fight yet.

You are just actually objectively wrong. The attacks are too frequent, like I said, to the point that they can layer in such a pattern in such a circumstance that requires you to get hit. I'm not going to keep repeating myself, it's not easy to argue with people who refuse to believe their precious game has a flawed boss.

[Grumm]

Unsubbing from discussion ngl kinda scared at the horde of angry people that are gonna respond

[Noborus]

^ This guy came straight from twitter
Don't know why you guys are still replying lmao

[Whiskra]

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Publicado originalmente por Whiskra:

What makes mastering the fight inconsistent? Just like any fight you learn from mistakes and apply the new knowledge for the next attempt. The only thing that makes Absolute Radiance different from Nightmare King Grimm, going by your example of a well designed boss, is that NKG doesn't require you to think after you've learned his attacks. It's all muscle memory. If you get caught out by a pattern that seems unavoidable on Absolute Radiance, you pretty much always have yourself to blame. Attacks aren't so frequent that you can't take it easy and calmly analyze the current situation. If you feel like you are unable to do so, I guess you didn't master the fight yet.

You are just actually objectively wrong. The attacks are too frequent, like I said, to the point that they can layer in such a pattern in such a circumstance that requires you to get hit. I'm not going to keep repeating myself, it's not easy to argue with people who refuse to believe their precious game has a flawed boss.

I'm probably the first guy to admit this game has flawed bosses, I actually hate like half of them, but Absolute Radiance is on the lower end of my ♥♥♥♥-list. It is the hardest boss in the game by far, but that doesn't automatically make it flawed. I do agree that the boss has flaws, but the boss doesn't have patterns that forces you to get hit. If you get hit, it's your own fault, be it due to panicking, playing too aggressively, or just making a simple mistake.

Throwing a tantrum like a child when people disagree with you or because you feel like the boss should be more casual doesn't exactly help your case, especially not when you're not willing to face the argument.

[Noborus]

Publicado originalmente por Grumm:

Publicado originalmente por Whiskra:

What makes mastering the fight inconsistent? Just like any fight you learn from mistakes and apply the new knowledge for the next attempt. The only thing that makes Absolute Radiance different from Nightmare King Grimm, going by your example of a well designed boss, is that NKG doesn't require you to think after you've learned his attacks. It's all muscle memory. If you get caught out by a pattern that seems unavoidable on Absolute Radiance, you pretty much always have yourself to blame. Attacks aren't so frequent that you can't take it easy and calmly analyze the current situation. If you feel like you are unable to do so, I guess you didn't master the fight yet.

You are just actually objectively wrong. The attacks are too frequent, like I said, to the point that they can layer in such a pattern in such a circumstance that requires you to get hit. I'm not going to keep repeating myself, it's not easy to argue with people who refuse to believe their precious game has a flawed boss.

I'm pretty sure everybody can agree no game is perfect, it may be perfect for some people but a game cannot truly be perfect unless everyone likes it, at least, this is what i think. "Perfect" means "having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be." according to google. Every game has flaws, and hollow knight is no different, but to complain about a boss being "unfair" because that's what you think, and not even bother to listen to what other people have to say just makes you ignorant, you aren't proving a point you just refuse to accept the fact you're incompetent.