Who are the snail shamans?

[purevessel]

We see them explode into void, and they are dark. Perphaps they were shamans for the ancient civilization? They dont seem to age and are shamans. But they arent pure void since they have minds. So could it be they are a gateway for the ancient kingdom to speak or worship the void we know they worshipped?

[purevessel]

i put it in spoiler discussion but here is already full of spoilers so

[Elimm]

The relics of the Ancient Civilization in the Abyss do not seems to match shamans' design styles, so I guess otherwise.

[purevessel]

Yet in the abyss we unlock abyss shriek, from the same black substance we see in other upgraded spells, probably void, showing that the snail shamans are prob made of void. Also, probably the abyss architecture was changed by the pale king, we see that architecture match the secret void room in white palace, so i dont think its actually the ancient civilization. Also, we know the ancient civilization made the soul totems, meaning they prob also studied soul, which lines up with the snail shamans, as well as they having special soul totems covered in masks.

[purevessel]

Why are these steam discussions so dead

[Elimm]

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Yet in the abyss we unlock abyss shriek, from the same black substance we see in other upgraded spells, probably void, showing that the snail shamans are prob made of void. Also, probably the abyss architecture was changed by the pale king, we see that architecture match the secret void room in white palace, so i dont think its actually the ancient civilization. Also, we know the ancient civilization made the soul totems, meaning they prob also studied soul, which lines up with the snail shamans, as well as they having special soul totems covered in masks.

However you can see the shade cloak statue and void tendril entry room, which are absolutely not Pale King's work, and they are unique to other designs either. All 3 upgraded spells are possibly related with void so shamans possibly do have some relation with it, but I'm still not convinced that they are part of the Ancient Civilization.

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Elimm:

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Yet in the abyss we unlock abyss shriek, from the same black substance we see in other upgraded spells, probably void, showing that the snail shamans are prob made of void. Also, probably the abyss architecture was changed by the pale king, we see that architecture match the secret void room in white palace, so i dont think its actually the ancient civilization. Also, we know the ancient civilization made the soul totems, meaning they prob also studied soul, which lines up with the snail shamans, as well as they having special soul totems covered in masks.

However you can see the shade cloak statue and void tendril entry room, which are absolutely not Pale King's work, and they are unique to other designs either. All 3 upgraded spells are possibly related with void so shamans possibly do have some relation with it, but I'm still not convinced that they are part of the Ancient Civilization.

I dont think its a statue, it has dream nail dialogue, maybe its a corpse of those ancient beigns. Also, the ancint masks may have a connection to the ancient civilization knew soul, and the masks are made of soul, and the snail shamans areas are full of masks. And the void tendril room may be connected with PK, who had similar structures, and did use and learn about void.

[Elimm]

Originally posted by PureVessel:

I dont think its a statue, it has dream nail dialogue, maybe its a corpse of those ancient beings. Also, the ancient masks may have a connection to the ancient civilization knew soul, and the masks are made of soul, and the snail shamans areas are full of masks. And the void tendril room may be connected with PK, who had similar structures, and did use and learn about void.

Statues can have dream nail dialogues, an example is the Radiance statue at the Hallownest's Crown.

I don't think there are actual evidence about Ancient Civilization using Soul, please tell me if I forget any.

As of the Ancient Mask, I think it's more related with Pale King and the vessels themselves, since the similar design style with Pure Nail and Seal of Binding. The normal masks in Hallownest, however, are more likely linked with Mask Maker, since For this kingdom's faceless, I shall provide. --Mask Maker. The Mask Maker themselves have knowledge about Ancient Civilization, though I doubt their connection with shamans.

The void tendril room is 0% similar in design with Pale King's structures in my point of view, not even the hidden workshop. Vessels in their shade form can use void tendril to attack, but I think this is just the "natural" form of void entities.

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Elimm:

Originally posted by PureVessel:

I dont think its a statue, it has dream nail dialogue, maybe its a corpse of those ancient beings. Also, the ancient masks may have a connection to the ancient civilization knew soul, and the masks are made of soul, and the snail shamans areas are full of masks. And the void tendril room may be connected with PK, who had similar structures, and did use and learn about void.

Statues can have dream nail dialogues, an example is the Radiance statue at the Hallownest's Crown.

I don't think there are actual evidence about Ancient Civilization using Soul, please tell me if I forget any.

As of the Ancient Mask, I think it's more related with Pale King and the vessels themselves, since the similar design style with Pure Nail and Seal of Binding. The normal masks in Hallownest, however, are more likely linked with Mask Maker, since For this kingdom's faceless, I shall provide. --Mask Maker. The Mask Maker themselves have knowledge about Ancient Civilization, though I doubt their connection with shamans.

The void tendril room is 0% similar in design with Pale King's structures in my point of view, not even the hidden workshop. Vessels in their shade form can use void tendril to attack, but I think this is just the "natural" form of void entities.

lemm: "These eggs are the most desired find from time before Hallownest, but they're not the only remnant of that age. You may have come upon them, those old statues that seem a store for Soul ? They too prove its existence, though in a larger, cruder form."
The radiance statue may be unique since the radiance is made of dreams (essence), but im not sure.
The seal of binding is related to the weavers iirc, and the pure nail is just the perfect nail.

To explain it:
Ancient civilization worships void and knows how to use soul
Snail shamans are related to void and know how to use soul
Ancient civilization may be correlated to ancient masks
Shamans have masks near them
shamans seem immune to the infection
void is immune to the infection
Shamans can make you learn void spells in death
Is it a coincidence?

[Elimm]

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Ancient civilization worships void and knows how to use soul
Snail shamans are related to void and know how to use soul
Ancient civilization may be correlated to ancient masks
Shamans have masks near them
shamans seem immune to the infection
void is immune to the infection
Shamans can make you learn void spells in death
Is it a coincidence?

Yeah I forgot the soul totems, good call on that.
I don't think Radiance statue have directly contacted her, it seems derelict and even made after Radiance's containment. But still, even if the Abyss statue is an ancient corpse it's vastly different with snails.

About the similarities:
-It is still unclear if shamans are related to void.
-Ancient Masks are more similar to Pure Nail, which lead to Pale King instead of Ancient Civilization. As of the Pure Nail, the almost exact same style can be seen on Pure Vessel (spike attacks and cutscene), so I think this is a specific design instead of some random "perfect" nail.
-Normal masks are literally everywhere in Hallownest.
-There are other ways to keep one from infection, seen in Mantis Tribe.
-In all cases the black parts of spells are mentioned as "shadow", although unconvincing it might indicate otherwise.

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Elimm:

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Ancient civilization worships void and knows how to use soul
Snail shamans are related to void and know how to use soul
Ancient civilization may be correlated to ancient masks
Shamans have masks near them
shamans seem immune to the infection
void is immune to the infection
Shamans can make you learn void spells in death
Is it a coincidence?

Yeah I forgot the soul totems, good call on that.
I don't think Radiance statue have directly contacted her, it seems derelict and even made after Radiance's containment. But still, even if the Abyss statue is an ancient corpse it's vastly different with snails.

About the similarities:
-It is still unclear if shamans are related to void.
-Ancient Masks are more similar to Pure Nail, which lead to Pale King instead of Ancient Civilization. As of the Pure Nail, the almost exact same style can be seen on Pure Vessel (spike attacks and cutscene), so I think this is a specific design instead of some random "perfect" nail.
-Normal masks are literally everywhere in Hallownest.
-There are other ways to keep one from infection, seen in Mantis Tribe.
-In all cases the black parts of spells are mentioned as "shadow", although unconvincing it might indicate otherwise.

1. Probable, though.
2. "The ultimate weapon of Hallownest. Crafted to perfection, this ancient nail reveals its true form" pure nail. No mention of the pale king. Maybe these marks hold power? seal of binding, pure nail etc. Are extremely powerful, could mean these marks hold power. Maybe hold soul better or something? But i dont see its relation to the pale king. The main places we see them are to the vessels, meant to be perfect, not necessarily pale. Ancient masks merge with our shell, made by the pale king. But could this mean pale beigns are related with soul? Kingsoul, ancient masks, with merge with a pale shell heal with soul, soul itself beign pure white, etc.
3. I dont remember seeing entire areas full of masks in the background everywhere. Masks have an influence everywhere, even grimm and the godseekers outside of hallownest, It still could mean theyre made of soul, hence why its present to the masters of soul spells, snail shamans.
4. Willpower and happiness. The infection is temptation, so beign able to resist it with willpower or not caring with happiness works, but there also is void, which makes completely immune. Many snail shamans dont seem neither strong willed enough, or happy enough.
5. Shade means shadow, shade lord, shades, shade cloak, etc. Are void. They seem to be the same.

[Elimm]

Originally posted by PureVessel:

1. Probable, though.
2. "The ultimate weapon of Hallownest. Crafted to perfection, this ancient nail reveals its true form" pure nail. No mention of the pale king. Maybe these marks hold power? seal of binding, pure nail etc. Are extremely powerful, could mean these marks hold power. Maybe hold soul better or something? But i dont see its relation to the pale king. The main places we see them are to the vessels, meant to be perfect, not necessarily pale. Ancient masks merge with our shell, made by the pale king. But could this mean pale beigns are related with soul? Kingsoul, ancient masks, with merge with a pale shell heal with soul, soul itself beign pure white, etc.
3. I dont remember seeing entire areas full of masks in the background everywhere. Masks have an influence everywhere, even grimm and the godseekers outside of hallownest, It still could mean theyre made of soul, hence why its present to the masters of soul spells, snail shamans.
4. Willpower and happiness. The infection is temptation, so beign able to resist it with willpower or not caring with happiness works, but there also is void, which makes completely immune. Many snail shamans dont seem neither strong willed enough, or happy enough.
5. Shade means shadow, shade lord, shades, shade cloak, etc. Are void. They seem to be the same.

Nail: We can basically see those "pure" stuffs only related with Pale King. The most significant part where the description "pure" is mentioned is Pure Vessel, a being created by the Pale king for the sole purpose of sealing off the Radiance, and most, if not all other "pure" objects are related with vessels, or belong to them.

Pale beings: With Kingsoul as an example, Pale King sure has a great control and usage of soul, to say the least.

Mask: We can see masks piling at Mantis Village and Colosseum of Fools. The shamans' decorations can be an expression similar to the significance of skulls in early civilizations in real life. Instead of the masks "made of" soul, I would instead say the Knight "repair" its mask(shell?) with soul, since ancient mask is only shown when all mask shards are collected.

Infection: I think shamans are strong willed in a way, as they can control soul by themselves, and can leave directive thoughts(?) after death.
...Hear...me... --Overgrown Mound Shaman

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Elimm:

Originally posted by PureVessel:

1. Probable, though.
2. "The ultimate weapon of Hallownest. Crafted to perfection, this ancient nail reveals its true form" pure nail. No mention of the pale king. Maybe these marks hold power? seal of binding, pure nail etc. Are extremely powerful, could mean these marks hold power. Maybe hold soul better or something? But i dont see its relation to the pale king. The main places we see them are to the vessels, meant to be perfect, not necessarily pale. Ancient masks merge with our shell, made by the pale king. But could this mean pale beigns are related with soul? Kingsoul, ancient masks, with merge with a pale shell heal with soul, soul itself beign pure white, etc.
3. I dont remember seeing entire areas full of masks in the background everywhere. Masks have an influence everywhere, even grimm and the godseekers outside of hallownest, It still could mean theyre made of soul, hence why its present to the masters of soul spells, snail shamans.
4. Willpower and happiness. The infection is temptation, so beign able to resist it with willpower or not caring with happiness works, but there also is void, which makes completely immune. Many snail shamans dont seem neither strong willed enough, or happy enough.
5. Shade means shadow, shade lord, shades, shade cloak, etc. Are void. They seem to be the same.

Nail: We can basically see those "pure" stuffs only related with Pale King. The most significant part where the description "pure" is mentioned is Pure Vessel, a being created by the Pale king for the sole purpose of sealing off the Radiance, and most, if not all other "pure" objects are related with vessels, or belong to them.

Pale beings: With Kingsoul as an example, Pale King sure has a great control and usage of soul, to say the least.

Mask: We can see masks piling at Mantis Village and Colosseum of Fools. The shamans' decorations can be an expression similar to the significance of skulls in early civilizations in real life. Instead of the masks "made of" soul, I would instead say the Knight "repair" its mask(shell?) with soul, since ancient mask is only shown when all mask shards are collected.

Infection: I think shamans are strong willed in a way, as they can control soul by themselves, and can leave directive thoughts(?) after death.
...Hear...me... --Overgrown Mound Shaman

Im pretty sure dream nail is irrelevant to willpower.
I took colosseum's masks as skulls, and i dont remember village's masks.
I believe said pure stuff is related by the pale king since he is the king, so he would want the best. Quality isnt related to money, but with higher quality comes higher prices. Pure stuff isnt related to the pale king, but the pale king wants the best, which is pure objects.
As for the pale beigns interacting with soul, yes, i agree. It was a small note about more proof that higher beigns can be differentiated by if theyre made of soul or essence.
Pale king clearly isnt strong willed and yet he good at soul, so i dont think they related.
With soul they repair shell, which is strengthened by ancient masks. Ancient masks also glow pale.

[Elimm]

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Im pretty sure dream nail is irrelevant to willpower.
I took colosseum's masks as skulls, and i dont remember village's masks.
I believe said pure stuff is related by the pale king since he is the king, so he would want the best. Quality isnt related to money, but with higher quality comes higher prices. Pure stuff isnt related to the pale king, but the pale king wants the best, which is pure objects.
As for the pale beigns interacting with soul, yes, i agree. It was a small note about more proof that higher beigns can be differentiated by if theyre made of soul or essence.
Pale king clearly isnt strong willed and yet he good at soul, so i dont think they related.
With soul they repair shell, which is strengthened by ancient masks. Ancient masks also glow pale.

Will power: Make sense if you don't think so, I'm just feeling a bit of indication on that.

Masks: More like mask pikes in Mantis Village, just an example of large amount of masks being gathered up. In the case of Ancient Mask, I think the Knight can only use soul to repair it instead of making whole new masks, and there's a living example of how masks are made which is the Mask Maker, visible carving and painting masks in its workshop. I believe the mask in the mounds are more likely these "normal" masks instead of potentially special Ancient Mask.

Pure: "Pure" in Hallownest is most likely linked to vessels, and defined by the Pale King's standard:
No mind to think.
No will to break.
No voice to cry suffering.
instead of just being good. As of the Pure Nail, I think there's certain connection between it and the vessels due to similar names, and the similarity in pattern design make another connection with ancient mask. Anyway, these connections seems only linked to Pale King instead of Ancient Civilization.

Also the Pale King is an exception when talking about infection, he is literally a higher being, a god that stand at the same height with Radiance herself, so his immunity to infection or Radiance's other direct influence need no explanation.

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Elimm:

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Im pretty sure dream nail is irrelevant to willpower.
I took colosseum's masks as skulls, and i dont remember village's masks.
I believe said pure stuff is related by the pale king since he is the king, so he would want the best. Quality isnt related to money, but with higher quality comes higher prices. Pure stuff isnt related to the pale king, but the pale king wants the best, which is pure objects.
As for the pale beigns interacting with soul, yes, i agree. It was a small note about more proof that higher beigns can be differentiated by if theyre made of soul or essence.
Pale king clearly isnt strong willed and yet he good at soul, so i dont think they related.
With soul they repair shell, which is strengthened by ancient masks. Ancient masks also glow pale.

Will power: Make sense if you don't think so, I'm just feeling a bit of indication on that.

Masks: More like mask pikes in Mantis Village, just an example of large amount of masks being gathered up. In the case of Ancient Mask, I think the Knight can only use soul to repair it instead of making whole new masks, and there's a living example of how masks are made which is the Mask Maker, visible carving and painting masks in its workshop. I believe the mask in the mounds are more likely these "normal" masks instead of potentially special Ancient Mask.

Pure: "Pure" in Hallownest is most likely linked to vessels, and defined by the Pale King's standard:
No mind to think.
No will to break.
No voice to cry suffering.
instead of just being good. As of the Pure Nail, I think there's certain connection between it and the vessels due to similar names, and the similarity in pattern design make another connection with ancient mask. Anyway, these connections seems only linked to Pale King instead of Ancient Civilization.

Also the Pale King is an exception when talking about infection, he is literally a higher being, a god that stand at the same height with Radiance herself, so his immunity to infection or Radiance's other direct influence need no explanation.

The last thing, i know. I didnt mention the infection. I said the pale king doesnt have willpower yet he knows soul, so they seem unrelated.

[purevessel]

Originally posted by Elimm:

Originally posted by PureVessel:

Im pretty sure dream nail is irrelevant to willpower.
I took colosseum's masks as skulls, and i dont remember village's masks.
I believe said pure stuff is related by the pale king since he is the king, so he would want the best. Quality isnt related to money, but with higher quality comes higher prices. Pure stuff isnt related to the pale king, but the pale king wants the best, which is pure objects.
As for the pale beigns interacting with soul, yes, i agree. It was a small note about more proof that higher beigns can be differentiated by if theyre made of soul or essence.
Pale king clearly isnt strong willed and yet he good at soul, so i dont think they related.
With soul they repair shell, which is strengthened by ancient masks. Ancient masks also glow pale.

Will power: Make sense if you don't think so, I'm just feeling a bit of indication on that.

Masks: More like mask pikes in Mantis Village, just an example of large amount of masks being gathered up. In the case of Ancient Mask, I think the Knight can only use soul to repair it instead of making whole new masks, and there's a living example of how masks are made which is the Mask Maker, visible carving and painting masks in its workshop. I believe the mask in the mounds are more likely these "normal" masks instead of potentially special Ancient Mask.

Pure: "Pure" in Hallownest is most likely linked to vessels, and defined by the Pale King's standard:
No mind to think.
No will to break.
No voice to cry suffering.
instead of just being good. As of the Pure Nail, I think there's certain connection between it and the vessels due to similar names, and the similarity in pattern design make another connection with ancient mask. Anyway, these connections seems only linked to Pale King instead of Ancient Civilization.

Also the Pale King is an exception when talking about infection, he is literally a higher being, a god that stand at the same height with Radiance herself, so his immunity to infection or Radiance's other direct influence need no explanation.

Pure seems to be "perfect", "flawless". Pure vessels, pure nails, etc. They seem more to have a common cause than pure nail beign related by pure vessels.